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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find Jimmy Carr's latest 'joke' really disgusting and pathetic

543 replies

runningwilde · 25/11/2011 14:24

Jimmy Carr has done it again. Nor content with making deeply disrespectful and horrid jokes about soldiers, he has now made a joke about children with Down's Syndrome and the Sunshine Variety coaches that do so much to help these kids and others too.

I used to like him but he goes too far. I really think that some things should not be joked about. Why do some people feel the need to tell
Jokes like that?

Yet, I am also aware of the fact that we can't censor jokes, but I wish some comedians actually set out to make us laugh with properly funny jokes rather than the nasty shit that Jimmy has been peddling again.

OP posts:
edam · 26/11/2011 14:01

no, the whole point of the campaign against them was that Francecca was disabled.

Pagwatch · 26/11/2011 14:01

I would love to agree with that but I am not sure where society is showing much tolerance to my son. He looks odd, he acts weird ergo pointing name calling and ridicule are fine.

I am Irish. Call me what you like. I don't give a shit. I am a reasonably smart, fairly articulate adult and I can take care of myself.

A bit different from my child.

edam · 26/11/2011 14:01

Anti-Irish jokes rest on the premise that Irish people are all thick. Not very funny.

Pagwatch · 26/11/2011 14:02

I have to go out. Not ignoring anyone.

Interesting though. I'll check back later

Bakelitebelle · 26/11/2011 14:03

I think the underlying reason those thugs drove Fiona Pilkington and her daughter to their deaths is the same reason that Jimmy Carr and his ilk like to make fun of disabled people. Because they are 'the other', different, apart from 'normal' society and not quite human. That's why people told jokes about black people in the 70's.

Glitterknickaz · 26/11/2011 14:11

It has to be that the froth brigade somehow see us and our children as lesser, not quite human and not deserving of respect.

What's that behaviour called again? You know when people are treated differently because of who they are? That'd be discrimination wouldn't it?

AgentZigzag · 26/11/2011 14:18

But in effect Bake, you're saying it's an incramental scale with the attitudes similar FB/JC resulting in the deaths of Fiona and Francecca, and I just don't believe that's the case.

You can laugh at their 'jokes' without thinking hounding people in their own home is alright.

I do understand you believe the people attacking them could justify their behaviour because these 'jokes' are marginally socially acceptable, but I really do feel strongly that although the subject of the 'joke' was shit and unacceptable, it doesn't go any way to explain why two vulnerable women were left unprotected against those violent, cruel thugs.

AgentZigzag · 26/11/2011 14:21

What about when Irish people use that stereotype against themselves edam?

I'm thinking (and chuckling) about Father Ted.

Gemjar · 26/11/2011 14:50

It's a very difficult issue. It is not acceptable for anyone to verbally abuse someone in the street, for whatever reason. But I still don't think that banning them from saying it is the answer, as it doesn't solve the problem.

If you accept that freedom of speech gives anyone the right to say anything, then you accept that ignorant people say ignorant things, the thing is, if you simply ban them from saying it, that doesn't stop them from thinking it or from believing they are right. Everyone SHOULD be able to say whatever they want, but people should also educate themselves so that they are no longer ignorant and understand why it is unacceptable to shout offensive things to people in the street. I was bullied a great deal in school, but I would never have wanted the people who bullied me to simply be prevented from saying the things that they said, I wanted them to understand why what they were saying was hurtful and wrong.

For the same reasons I would never want someone like Jimmy Carr, or Frankie Boyle, or for that matter Jim Davidson to be banned from appearing on television, or for channel 4 to stop commissioning them as some have said, because if they were they would still think that the jokes that they have made that have crossed the line are funny, if they are good at what they do (and in 2 out of 3 cases, they are) then they should still get work, but they need to understand why some of what they say is offensive. Not, as some have suggested by becoming disabled themselves, but by educating them to understand that what they say does have an affect on real people.

Pagwatch · 26/11/2011 15:01

Gemjar

I am struggling to find a way to say this so that you understand. Because I have said it two or three times but you are still arguing about whether people should be banned.

I don't want anyone banned. I am not sure anyone on here has asked for that
I support freedom of speech. Again I think most people on here do too.
All subjects should be open to humour. But humour should ideally be funny - ideally.

Constantly arguing for freedom of speech is a straw man argument because no one is arguing against it.

Pagwatch · 26/11/2011 15:08

Of course language affects how people are viewed in society. Language is hugely important.

Why else are some racist slurs pretty much cut out of society, why do people object to chav, or bitch or yummymummy.
When you find a word that creates a demeaning stereotype that creates sn atmosphere in which people can be reduced, diminished.

Or, is a male worker who regularly calls his female colleagues 'love' or 'sweetheart' just being friendly and having no impact at all? Would a client meeting them not be more inclined to look down on the female?

Language is incredibly important.

TigerseyeMum · 26/11/2011 15:58

The point is (as far as i can see) he made a joke that wasn't funny, that was pointing and laughing at disabled children, and that makes him a bit of a cunt really

I think the problem though is that this is a thread, about a headline in a very piss-poor 'news'paper that specifically took one particular line in a whole routine, took it out of context and interpreted it in a certain way.

It therefore placed something that sounded highly dubious into a different contect from the one in which it was said and received. You're right, language is highly important and the way Carr uses it is quite a tricky thing. He is like a slippery eel in that respect.

If you accept the premise that he made this specific joke in such a way as to imply that all DS children look the same and are somehow sub-human and we should all laugh at them then yes, what he said was offensive.

If I thougt for a minute that is what he meant, and what the audience heard, then would condemn him without hesitation. But, having seen him, and seen the routine, and followed a lot of what he has said outside of his comedy routines, I don't for one nanosecond think that is what he meant. Far far from it.

And, as someone who has seen and enjoyed his work, I do find it rather offensive that the thread implies that people such as myself are (what was it?) morons, poorly educated, deeply unpleasant people who condone acts of violence perpetrated against disabled people and consider them to be less than human. I also disagree that there is a direct correlation between Carr saying something in particular in a context to a particular audience, and people (who may or may not have ever seen his routine) bullying, torturing or tormenting people with disabilities.

I agree wholeheartedly that such a joke can and possibly will be used in a playground, or in the street or anywhere as an act of aggression. To some extent though Carr and his ilk cannot be held responsible for how others choose to use their material. In fact part of the point is to highlight that actually, there is this issue still within society, it hasn't gone away, it s an act of stupidty and cruelty but that ultimately he is not the one to cause or instigate it. Within the context of his act his audience has an understanding of where he is coming from. Take a joke like that out of that context and the Mail is playing a highly manipulative and irresponsible game by introducing an idea in a very misleading way thus given it a 'wider' and possibly less discerning audience. There is a particula media theory that suggests that people choose the media (or material) they want to read or watch purely to reinforce their existing beliefs. The material does not shape r legitimise their beliefs in such a simplistic way as might be suggested here. Therefore some people may well attend a gig to hear certain jokes in certain ways. From what I have seen most people do not go to hear jokes told against disabled kids, they go to hear jokes about kids and disability that actually say something quite different. There are neanderthals at any gig anywhere though, and they usually get the piss ripped out of them much to the audience's enjoyment.

I'm not going to pick the joke apart or analyse it. What I am trying to say is that some or all of the objections in this thread are a response to the Mail article NOT the joke. The joke existed somewhere else, in another time, place and context and as such had a very different meaning to when it got snipped out, plonked in a Mail headline and interpreted in a certain way.

Leveson Inquiry anyone? If you want to be offended, read about how Mail journalists conduct themselves in real life that results in human misery and suicide. The Mail is not allowed across my threshold, Carr's DVD however dropped onto my mat yesterday and I am very happy about that.

TigerseyeMum · 26/11/2011 15:59

Sorry, I didn't manage to quote the quotey bit, sorry.

Pagwatch · 26/11/2011 16:12

I would struggle to find a context, a stream of humour where that particular joke would be amusing. But I hear what you say.

I have said a squillion times that disability is not off limits. And the thread is about one joke, in the same way that the Frankie Boyle furore was about one joke. Well actually two because he is a massive cunt.

And the discussion about The Joke has included people rocking up to say 'hey I think it's fine' with no more context than some of those who are offended by it.
I think to blame the upset on the Daily Mail is stretching a point. I am not sure being upset by the joke makes you doomed to mail readership.

If someone can point me to a context that makes it funny I would be delighted. But low level acceptance of jokes about disability remains an issue unfortunately, the 'just don't look at it' responses are evidence of that.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 16:18

I think Carr is hilarious.

BeerTricksPotter · 26/11/2011 16:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 26/11/2011 16:28

Just come back to say I meant Richard Herring not stuart Lee Blush

Poor Richard, always in the 'better looking one's' shadow Sad

AgentZigzag · 26/11/2011 16:44

S'all very well feeling sorry for Richard Herring, but have you spared a thought for the fate of the Curious Orange MrsD?

(The Curious Orange did happen didn't he? Grin)

northernwreck · 26/11/2011 18:11

The thing about the JC joke is that it's not funny.

Humour needs to come from truth, or some kind of recognition that it could be true, and the JC "joke" just isn't funny because anyone who lives in the world knows that DS kids don't all look alike.

We all know for a fact that he wouldn't have substituted the work "black people" for "downs kids" (and it also used to be acceptable to propagate the fallacy that white people can't tell black people apart.)

He wouldn't do this because it became not in any way OK to make racist jokes.
Comedians were forced to find ways of being funny without being racist, which made them have to work a bit harder, and comedy got a lot funnier.

Jimmy Carr is just bad, lazy comic who is clinging to one of the last revolting stereotypes that people will tolerate because he is too lazy and talentless to write any funny material.

northernwreck · 26/11/2011 18:12

I really fancy Stuart Lee. AIBU?

BeerTricksPotter · 26/11/2011 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

northernwreck · 26/11/2011 18:17

I can't help it. I know it's wrong. Blush

BeerTricksPotter · 26/11/2011 18:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 26/11/2011 18:30

I am late to this thread.

Thankfully.

There is nothing that infuriates me more than people with children with SN being accused of 'frothing' and overreacting by people with NT kids, if they are angry when people make offensive jokes about their children.

Really you have no idea and should wind your necks in.

I would not dream of telling someone black to 'stop frothing' if they were offended by racism, how arrogant would that be?

Unless you would be all easy going if some adults bullied and laughed at your child in the street. Then you have a fair point.

MmeLindor. · 26/11/2011 19:31

Right. I haven't read the whole thread, but I can imagine how much of it went.

I just want to say that I agree with the OP, cause sometimes the parents of children with SN feel left alone in the cold on MN and we all need to speak out against this kind of shitty "comedy".

Yes to free speech, but these comedians are in the public eye, and these "jokes" are texted and Facebooked around, they are retold and they are embellished. They create an atmosphere of no limits, that any joke about people with DS or other SN is acceptable.

This is the reason that people are hassled, that parents of children with SN are stared at, are abused, are bullied by moronic followers of such arseholes as Carr and Boyle.

Anyone who cannot see that, is imo just as moronic as the teller of these jokes.

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