To think that 'economic migrants' should not be entitled to 'social housing'?

[MrsVoltar]

Am I BU? I would like to be told YABU & given reasons why. I don't (think) I have a problem with 'economic migrants', by that I mean people who move to another country for better pay/ more jobs etc, but I didn't expect they would be entitled to social housing. Why are they?

Why, when the govt is making so many cuts this priority housing is being given to 'economic migrants'? I don't mean 'asylum seekers' or people in genuine need who cannot return to their home country. Surely if you move to another country for better pay/job prospects you should be willing to 'pay your way' in the accomodation market too?

I'd be very surprised if reciprocal arrangements were in place in other countries. Could someone from the UK move to Spain, for example, get a job there, have children & be entitled to 'social housing' there? I would like to be told I am wrong (I really dislike having a 'Daily Mail' attitude to this!)

(a bit scared, this is my first AIBU !)

I have no idea about the social housing situation but I was a bit when my old boss in Australia proudly told me her backpacking son was going to come to the UK to travel around and claim UK unemployment benefits as soon as he arrived to pay for his travels. Think he had British citizenship through family but had never worked/paid taxes in UK. That said I knew plenty of British backpackers taking the p*ss in Aus, not claiming benefits but rocking up on the doorsteps of long lost family or friends of friends expecting free accommodation for x months whilst they dossed about. There are people like this from every country, in every country.

lljkk if they are working (think the clue is in the term 'economic migrants') then they could get private housing, like most people do...

"Actually, I should copy that and save that somewhere, so when people start making fuckwittery comments about forriners coming and stealing houses etc., can just go "0.0012% of the UK's population are immigrants living in social housing" like that. "

I am saving this too.

And we mustn't forget that the 2% doesn't just relate to economic migrants it relates to all migrants so the economic migrant figure would be much lower than the 76,000 people wouldn't it. Hardly something worth worrying about.

Yes I have read the OP.
The Daily Mail website is still this way>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
See ya!

Delia I asked if you had read the 'thread' not the OP.

Maybe I should have put my OP more like this

AIBU to be surprised to find that working EU Economic Migrants can be entitled to Social Housing?

Oh well, its certainly separated the 'debaters' from the erm, more 'less inclined to debate a topic' types.

I think the problem OP the side at which your view comes across.

You view point is that immigrants are taking council houses from our own people. Your view point does not take into account any other factors.

Let me pose a of questions;

Would you prefer an immigrant family working as cleaners in our hospitals (essential work but not paid enough to rent privately) to have a council house or a long term, unwilling to work British family?

My point is it's never a simple as saying let's look after our own first because there are variables, the example is only one of many real examples.

If we look at Britain as a society rather than a race then surely where ever people come from if they are contributing to our society then it is good for the majority of the indigenous population.

Sorry terrible typos

There's nothing to debate. YABU because you're thickwrong.

HTH

Really helpful thread for two columns of my mumsnetter spreadsheet: Sane/DM readers.
Carry on.

And furthermore

As there are many more immigrants doing lower paid essential work than British born nationals then you could argue that 2% is a low figure for immigrants in social housing.

There are no more immigrants doing low paid jobs than Brits

"I'd be very surprised if reciprocal arrangements were in place in other countries."

Well, there's certainly no problem with British citizens getting social housing in Germany. In the early 90s I moved here and didn't earn much as I was studying. I got a 1-bed local authority flat for a very small rent (admittedly it was in Eastern Germany so didn't have a bath, central heating or telephone) and then even got housing benefit for a few years, bringing the total costs down to less than 50 pounds per month. I had exactly the same rights as a German would have had.

The problem in the UK is that there is quite simply too little social housing for the people who need it - blame the politicians.

I have read the thread and the OP. Sensible, well informed posters have on numerous occasions pointed out that there is nothing to debate. It's a non issue. There are not swathes of 'economic migrants' queuing up and taking social housing. Non issue. In the current economic crisis envisaging this as a problem is like worrying over a tiny microscopic pimple on an elephant's arse. Unless of course you believe everything you read in the Daily Mail, which is that way>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Serenity, I don't know what the percentage of immigrants doing low paid essential work.

My point is that immigrant workers make up a substantial part of our essential low paid work force and therefore if they are entitled to social housing then I think it's a good thing.

I just posed a hypothetical question and your only response was that "there are no more immigrants doing low paid work than Brits" You seemed to have missed my point.

Sorry, that was supposed to be "there are not* more immigrants doing low paid jobs than brits" My point is it's a generalisation, and posing all economic migrants as low paid low skilled poor people is no better than painting them as freeloaders.

I am most definitely not posing all economic migrants as low paid workers, I am second generation economic migrant myself paying 50% tax!! You really misunderstood me.

I am simply replying to posts in regard to council housing and economic migrants and therefore discussions about low paid migrants will of course be more prevalent than high paid migrants.

I am not sure that EU economic migrants are automatically "entitled" to social housing...There are two Polish guys where I work, one of whom works extremely hard, has wife and a couple of kids (soon to have another, bless him) At first I think his wife and kids stayed back in Poland, they later came over. He did get social housing when they arrived, but he did not stand a chance to be placed in the sort of two bed family house with a garden that the 19 year old single mum who I work with has managed to get; she had the luxury of being able to wait it out and stay at her mum's, with boyfriends etc and pick and choose where she got to live whilst the polish family pretty much had no choice but to accept what they were offered, which was a tiny, mouldy flat in a tower block which cause his daughter quite serious health problems. The flat his family had to live in was available because to be honest no one would want to live in it. I think that this worker qualified for this after a year of working here. Likewise, his uncle also works for us. He is homeless, but works as our sign holder for 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. This is a job that you'd be hard pressed to find a British person to do as it really would not be worth it for them. He has worked for our company for over a year now and will soon be entitled to a place on the social housing list. I don't begrudge him that!

It is partly due to the nature of work that EU migrants can accept- usually seasonal and sporadic that there is a need to house them cheaply. They do fill a gap in the labour market that our unemployed don't even know exists, or won't take up because they are too worried about the sporadic employment disrupting their entitlement to benefits. EU migrant workers are entitled to some benefits after a year's employment, and yes it does work both ways, if Brits move abroad within the EU we qualify for the same benefits other countries offer if we live and work there. Now that the above mentioned dad has been working here for a while, his English has improved and he can work full time he has worked himself the hell out of social housing because it was absolutely terrible for him and now has a part share in his own property and is very happy with his life. I think he feels that it is worth living here working in a kitchen so that he can provide his family a better, more secure life than he could at home. The business I work for is really quite dependant on having the flexible labour that migrants offer. I'd add that all the time this family lived in social housing they did pay all their own rent unlike above mentioned young mum who works 15 hours a week but has her rent paid for her; she doesn't aspire to being independent for her family, but she doesn't really have to. She very much sees the house that other workers (including polish family, who pay tax!) pay for as her house. I don't begrudge this colleague housing either, but it pays to retain some perspective in these matters.

It's worth adding though that I live in Scotland, so the HMO laws make it extra difficult for migrant workers to find cheap, shared housing. Unless you're married it's one person per room here in most private rentals.

Serenity funnily enough when I was posting about contribution to society I was going to mention higher paid immigrants and the contribution they provide but didn't want to confuse the issue and make my post too long!

Fair enough, I know what you're saying, I think we're coming from the same side anyway.

You know what never seems to bother Daily-Mail type scaremongers? The fact that, if like me you are married to an economic migrant, it's not only your husband/wife who can't seek recourse to public funds - in effect, it also restricts you (because they can't exactly give us half a council house, for example). I wonder how many UK citizens are kept out of social housing because they have economic migrant partners?

It just always strikes me as odd no-one ever seems to mention this side of it, and the fact that if you're an economic migrant (and therefore usually required to be self-supporting), you may well also be supporting your UK citizen partner too.

You mean people like these OP?

I don't think YABU, but then I do quite like to read the Daily Mail.

lambethlil Please point out why I am thick?

I was asking for opinions/information and people with knowledge, which quite a few have provided.

LRD I hope you don't mean my posts as 'Daily Mail scaremonger' because I strongly disagree.

Tenebrist I do blame the politicians.
cookinfat what Hully said up thread was THEY AREN'T, if you had read the thread you will find that THEY ARE.

Read the thread people!

MrsV - I meant the Daily Mail columnists (not all of them obviously but the general trend).

This might have been a better thread

Hully THEY AREN'T. END OF.

Me (OP) THEY ARE. END OF.

Hully THEY AREN'T. END OF.

Me (OP) THEY ARE. END OF.

Hully THEY AREN'T. END OF.

Me (OP) THEY ARE. END OF.

Repeat as necessary

But in this thread, we have found that 'some' are and good reasons why they are.