To think that 'economic migrants' should not be entitled to 'social housing'?

[MrsVoltar]

Am I BU? I would like to be told YABU & given reasons why. I don't (think) I have a problem with 'economic migrants', by that I mean people who move to another country for better pay/ more jobs etc, but I didn't expect they would be entitled to social housing. Why are they?

Why, when the govt is making so many cuts this priority housing is being given to 'economic migrants'? I don't mean 'asylum seekers' or people in genuine need who cannot return to their home country. Surely if you move to another country for better pay/job prospects you should be willing to 'pay your way' in the accomodation market too?

I'd be very surprised if reciprocal arrangements were in place in other countries. Could someone from the UK move to Spain, for example, get a job there, have children & be entitled to 'social housing' there? I would like to be told I am wrong (I really dislike having a 'Daily Mail' attitude to this!)

(a bit scared, this is my first AIBU !)

Well to be fair OP - your OP made no distinction between EU and non EU immigrants. As the wife of a non-EU immigrant with a very clearly stamped "no recourse to public funds" in his passport your post is a bit irritating as these are the kinds of assumptions he faces daily.

With regard to the EU immigrants it is all about reciprocity - they get it here because we get it there but it is not that straight forward. EU immigrants can't generally just rock up here with no work and no intention of working and beocme a burden on public funds.

but they dont tend to get social housing, do they???

New migrants to the UK over the last five years make up around three per cent of the total UK population but are LESS THAN TWO PER CENT of the total of those in social housing.

Hully good bit of research there. Now, come to the beach. Got hot coffee.

It's Clo's, I just nicked it a bit.

Have you got whisky in th ecoffee?

very willing with persons with more up to date info to prove me wrong, but my understanding was that:

in order to get access to social housing benefit you have to have a right to reside.

in order to have the right to reside, even if you are an EU citizen, you need to show you have some means of support, at least eventually. Back in the day when I was studying EU law, the leading case was ex part Antonissen, which said that it was ok for a government to tell non-national EU citizens to leave if after 6 months they'd not found work (which was what the UK govt was doing, hence the case). So if you just rocked up and said gissa flat, it wouldn't work.

Ciske but I did know the facts? They are entitled, I did not know why, know I do.

Hully that will be 2% of all people in social housing, not 2% of EU migrants.

Apologies Sarah I should have made that clearer.

Arrived here over 6 years ago and still don't have a free house. What did I do wrong? (Other than nicking someone's job?)

In England
"The latest annual volume of Housing and Planning Statistics for 2010 was released on 2 December 2010 under arrangements in line with the code of practice for official statistics.

This annual compendium covers all aspects of housing and planning in England (and in some cases, tables also cover the United Kingdom). Key figures from the report show:
There were 21.5 million households in England in 2008-09: 14.6 million owner-occupiers; 3.8 million social renters; and 3.1 million private renters."

from here

2% of 3.8 million (social renters) is about 600,000, I think, quite a few then.

So no, I don't know all of them (obviously )

At least you're not a plaguriser. Some people would have just made it up. I don't know anyone like that though.

Can't put whisky in the coffee until 12 o'clock. That's the law. So by the time you get here it will be time. Might even crack open the crisps.

600,000 Hully because you seem to like bold.

I don't think anyone said anything about nicking other people's jobs Widow.
Or that they are 'free houses'??

It depends on what kind of "economic migrant" you are.

If you're EU, you fall under the right to the free movement of workers, so may (depending on the country of origin) be eligible for some benefits, likewise if you went to France for e.g., you would be eligible for certain benefits. But then there are lots of regulations and requirements around this (e.g. how long you've been in the country, NI and tax contributions etc.). You could hardly turn up tomorrow, kick British citizens out of a house and claim it as your own with the blessings of the state.

Then, you have non-EU immigrants who could come in through a number of ways, e.g. the Highly Skilled Migrants programme, where you're required to meet certain criteria (level of education - PhDs and MBAs preferred, level of savings - at least £3k over a number of years; standard of English - english speaking countries preferred). You can go online and do a trial run and see whether or not you'd be allowed in the UK. Another way is through the Ancestral visa programme (though this is being discontinued), where if you had a British grandparent you would be allowed to stay in the UK and work for two years. Most visas stipulate that you have no recourse to public funds, so would not be entitled to social housing. There are additional restrictions (again, depending on the type of visa you have, of which there are many) like having to have a certain amount of money saved to support yourself should you lose your job, having to be sponsored by a UK resident and citizen should things go belly up, if it's through your employer, you lose your visa if you are no longer employed by them.

I'm an economic migrant, but also a British passport holder (have been my whole life). I was prohibited from having recourse to public funds for a certain period after I arrived, and you are treated as a non-resident (which affects things like tuition fees etc.) for around three years after arriving.

Sorry Highly skilled migrant is the name for the Australian programme. In the UK it's called "Tier 1".

here's stuff on different visa types, including a test to see whether or not you'd qualify.

2% of £3.8m - try again...

my brother did his masters for free in Denmark,i wonder how many Danish people get to do there masters in UK for free....

sticky I didn't mean to ignore your post but its not even about working/not working.

EU 'ecomonic migrants' are as entitled to social housing as UK citizens, its 'free movement' within the EU.

From what has been helpfully posted, I can now argue (for my friends, from EU, non UK) that they are working so they pay taxes so they are entitled.

And not feel that I don't know what I am talking about.

correct, but it does also depend on how long someone's been in the UK (and paying into taxes) and what country they came from - not all EU citizens are treated equally (broadly old EU vs new EU)

A study carried out within the London boroughs, which lay within the M25, found that only 3% of social housing, in this area, was allocated to people who were born outside of the UK but within the EU.

The study, carried out in June 2011 for the Co-op, found that the results were at large odds with results from a survey asking people what % of social housing they believed was allocated to EU migrants. 53% of people questioned thought that 25-35% of housing was given to EU economic migrants.

Those questioned were also asked about their vegetable intake. 40% of those who took part in the survey ate at least 2 bananas a week. Only 4% ate melon once a week. Most interesting 3% had never eaten grapefruit. Fruit consumption changed in the months from October to March with 45% of those surveyed saying they bought tinned peaches. Only 5% of that 40% put custard on them.

From: The Grocer?s Friend. August 2011

They aren't- it's very clear on my council's website and I think everywhere else in the UK. Also a lot of them (used to live in area with lots of eastern European migrants) live in the shittest rental flats in overcrowded conditions so they can get it cheap and send money home. Now, if you'd said UK employers should be obliged to provide training to local people to enable them to take up the jobs instead, I'd actually agree with you (I think economic migration is bad for the countries people come from too- skill loss and artificial inflation of their economies by people sending money in so people who stay local and support their community there can't afford things, just like we have in rural areas of the UK now with second-home owners), but you're not arguing from facts or logic at all.

Whoops, what a numpty happy to admit mistake!!
Having problems with my laptop calculator
More like 76,000, still don't know all of them!

Also I do feel there ought to be much stricter tests for whether someone is needed for a particular job from outside the UK- for example, I am a highly skilled scientist (MSc and nearly finished writing up a PhD). I'm unemployed. There is a 'talent' scheme here in Scotland for people to move in- I'm already here and not being offered jobs because apparently I don't have experience of the exact same technique/don't come across as 'cool/social'/have children/am 'too numerate' (not kidding, I was turned down with this exact phrasing recently). Frankly social housing allocation is a non-issue as there's virtually none left for anyone anyway.

Wibbly they are
Link up thread
"New migrants to the UK over the last five years make up around three per cent of the total UK population but are less than two per cent of the total of those in social housing"

less than 2% but still about 76,000 people (worked out after my blunder up thread where I really showed myself up )

In my local area there is strong competition for social housing and when I come on MN & hear of people really struggling and not able to get housing that they need I did wonder why there are non UK people given social housing.

That is all.

I am arguing from fact.