to say this to all the teachers who are striking next week

[Memoo]

As a parent I am 100 % behind you.

I really appreciate that you put your life and soul into your job and im sorry more people don't get just how hard you work for the benefit of our children.

Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Some facts ( Sorry for reposts):Very important pension public sector liabilities circa £1 trillion under funded.

www.public-sector-pensions-commission.org.uk/wp-content/themes/pspc/images/Public-Sector-Pensions-Commission-Report.pdf

Okay this from NUT website:"Hutton Report on Public Sector Pensions - press release

• 9 March 2011.

Commenting ahead of Lord Hutton?s report on public sector pensions, Christine Blower, General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers, the largest teachers? union said;

?Lord Hutton in his first report last October recognised that public sector pensions are far from ?gold plated? and that the changes already made in 2007 are cutting their costs. Despite this, he appears to have swallowed the lie that public sector pensions are still unaffordable."

?The National Audit Office has confirmed that public sector pension costs are falling as expected due to the reforms already in place. Teachers are already paying more, the normal pension age has been raised to 65 for new entrants and employer contributions have been capped."

More recent info from NUT website:
"Lord Hutton?s final report on 10 March has set out various options for change ? all will cut our pensions."

Sounds like he wanted change.

Sorry, this does not say it is sustainable, merely costs are falling.Please point out where it claims to be sustainable long term. Oh and in 2007 this allows for employer 14% contribution compared to employee 6.4% (have heard 6.8% quoted previously but 6.4% is from an NUT website presentation). This would be rarely (if ever) the case in the private sector.

We need to be seen to do some thing to get funding for the £150 billion yearly deficit. If we lose are credit rating interest payment will increase.

BBC website has lots of great graphs illustrating the problems with most public pensions.

So iggly, which part of my last post sounds ureasonable to you? Does anyone actually believe that the govt expected the unions to take the first deal offers, of course not, they know the unions and know how to barter. This is exactly what they were expecting, knowing full well that by pitting private against public they would cause exactly what this thread has provided.

The state pension is underfunded as well. Those retiring now are set to get out of the state 115% of what the pay in. We have an aging population to look after (50% of NHS costs are patients of pension age). If we need adequate care for all we can not afford to pay out unfunded pensions. I would think even the new deal will be underfunded as well, but a bit more balanced.

But the Unions do not seem to share anything with you. I seem to get information of bits of deals from the BBC website . Lots seem to be worried they will lose apension that they have paid in for years. One poster was worried when BUT......they would not be affected at all as they were within 10 years od retirement.

One poster was worried BUT......they would not be affected at all as they were within 10 years of retirement.

At DH work I get very concerned about the Unison posters. No facts/Data merely propaganda.

We also get lots of spin from the government. The government have sent an email to teachers with their offer. We aren't all under informed in the slightest. I'd still like to know what part of my last post is unreasonable.

Well, last but one post.

"The government will not back down and the unions are going to lead you into persistent industrial action. The small amount of support you have will dwindle and die. The Labour party will move from lilly livered fence sitting to full frontal condemnation."

Let these words be branded into the sweet bacon hide of every little public service piggy gorging themselves at the taxpayers trough.

Its going to be a joy to watch.

Iggly - the fact is that the cost of public sector pensions is declining - as I said earlier. It's a political decision re: whether the Government decides to continue to bear that cost or seeks to cut it and spend the money elsewhere. So the pensions are sustainable if that's where you choose to spend the money.

For info, the most common pension payout for civil servants is 2-4K and for teachers £8k a year. Hardly huge amounts.

Can someone explain to me how it benefits our children to downgrade these pensions therefore potentially adding to the benefits and welfare bill later on?

For info, the most common pension payout for civil servants is 2-4K and for teachers £8k a year. Hardly huge amounts - no but more than many private sector workers

Let these words be branded into the sweet bacon hide of every little public service piggy gorging themselves at the taxpayers trough.

Bit harsh on for example a part time admin assistant in a primary school on £6,963.54 per annum

Hardly gorging is it?

100% support

Oh and if that civil servant or teacher then lives another 30 years that could only cost £60,000 - £240,000. Mulitply that up across the 1,000's of civil servant or teachers and take and average as not all with last 30 years after retirement have you have ALOT of money!

Where I am sitting only getting £60,000 - £240,000 after retirement is about as far removed from what is actually going to happen. I feel even worse knowing that the sums involved will actually be far higher

Hi all,

We have been following this discussion and wanted to point you in the direction of our poll about the strikes on our Facebook page, we would really appreciate it if you took a moment to vote and you can have a look at the Delia pictures while you are there

tia

I am not sure what your point is. Those workers have paid into their pensions too - they are not free! On average public sector workers make twice the pension contributions that private sector workers do.

The real scandal is the inadequate pension provision in the private sector. You are talking as though that is the public sector's fault

you're right polly.

All those who say that because the private sector don't always have a pension provided then the public sector pension provision should be reduced -consider this:

• if a private company fails to provide pension cover for its employees, the employee then becomes reliant on the state in old age - surely this is a taxpayer subsidy of the private sector.

Tell me why is this better or more desirable than providing a decent and acceptable occupational pension?

Add to this the impact that poverty has on society and then consider again.

What is really interesting is just how disingenuous everyone is being.

The unions say tis is all about T&C but actually want battle with the governemnt about wider poitics.

The teachers say they want to protect services etc, but let us be very clear if the government offer to keep current pensions as is and make changes to those coming after, the teachers will pull up that ladder quicker than Crowe calls a strike.

"For info, the most common pension payout for civil servants is 2-4K and for teachers £8k a year. Hardly huge amounts - no but more than many private sector workers"

But surely even 8k a year is barely a living wage these days. To pensioners on only 8k a year get more benefits, pension top ups? If so it seems that the govt are just going to have to be paying more out but under a different scheme down the line.

lassylass

""The government will not back down and the unions are going to lead you into persistent industrial action. The small amount of support you have will dwindle and die. The Labour party will move from lilly livered fence sitting to full frontal condemnation."

Let these words be branded into the sweet bacon hide of every little public service piggy gorging themselves at the taxpayers trough.

Its going to be a joy to watch."

so says the great unwashed

51% of business in the private sector are SME's with less than 10 employees. Sorting pension provision on a tiny scale either company wide or for individuals is a mine field. I set up a pension, paid in for 10 years and the company are now under investigation for dodgy dealing and fraud.

The point is public sector workers tend to stay in the public sector and are paying into a scheme set up on a grand scale which is impossible to have in the private sector. That cannot be changed and god only knows what is going to happen when that one comes home to roost.

It is not public sectors fault that the provision is sorted for them but it is their fault to moan and groan about it. Seriously, so many private sector workers would be delighted to have had their pension sorted out for them.

Many of the jobs in the public sector cannot be compared with private sector jobs because they relate to statutory functions.

Where there is a comparison - legal officers, architects etc - the qualified and experienced public sector worker is looking at around £7- 10k less than the equivalent level job in the private sector. That buys quite a lot of pension