to say this to all the teachers who are striking next week

[Memoo]

As a parent I am 100 % behind you.

I really appreciate that you put your life and soul into your job and im sorry more people don't get just how hard you work for the benefit of our children.

Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Many of them opted for teaching because they didn't have a huge range of options available to them.

Those that can, do.....

And bullshit teacher opinions bingo is complete!

I am certainly not innumerate. I got a top grade in maths, before the days of A* and I studied a maths course that was between a level and gcse. I knew what I wanted to do and chose A Levels accordingly. I have friends who have "top jobs" in finance and law and they have the same degree as me. I am sure they don't all have a maths A Level.

So just to confirm,

Since 2007 the UK has committed to spending £1.162 trillion at various points on bailing out the banks. This figure has however fluctuated wildly during the period and by March 2011 it was £456.33bn.

£456.33 billion in 4 years to the banks, compared to paying £47,302 million to the teacher pension fund in those same 4 years.....

Obviously when looking at the wider picture there are other funds that need to be taken into consideration, also bearing in mind that some funds are well and truly in credit. Still doesn't quite add up in the spending steaks now does it.

I love how this thread has developed.. We don't deserve our pensions and now we should be lucky we have a job at all as we are so thick!
For what it's worth I have a masters and dh has a PhD - neither of us would even have considered a job in the private sector.

"teacherwith2kids I have several teachers in my immediate and extended family. Several of my friends are teachers, too. None of them had exam grades or degrees good enough to go into the law, or medicine, or engineering, or banking, or accountancy. "

As it happens, pretty much all of my family teaches - and all of us have 3 or 4 As at A-level and 1sts or 2:1s from Oxbridge, in Arts subjects in the previous generation and in Sciences from my generation. I am significantly better qualified than my DH, who is an accountant, and in fact have better qualifications that anyone I know in any of the professions you mention....

If posters are correct and the teaching profession is made up of people who are too thick to do anything else, that is an issue that needs addressing .

Making the profession less attractive won't attract the brightest and best.

Those that begin teaching because "they don't have a huge range of options" don't tend to be teaching for very long!

Twinkly, my siblings and I are probably 'brightest and best' by your definition.

Two of us have teaching as a vocation, one does not. It's not to do with attractiveness, it is genuinely to do with vocation - and as someone who spent many years running away from my vocation I know what it feels like!

I was a teacher and left because I was embarrassed as people thought I was not as bright because I was a teacher. I remember a student who knew my family and school/uni results exclaiming "with marks like that, why on earth would you become a teacher miss???"

"Professional accountants require at the least good A levels (incuding maths)with 5 or 6years of professional training and examinations."

but not dgrees

"The bankers who earn the money, and all engineers, require high levels of numeracy. And the ones with the really good jobs are mainly graduates (certainly the ones in their 30s and 40s). "

generalisations don't help
not all bankers nor engineers have degrees

I don't buy the teachers aren't bright enough to do anything else but neither do I buy the all teachers are committed,work their arses off and deserve their pensions because they walk on water.

Of course there are many good teachers who work hard(I've worked with many and my kids have had several)however I've worked with a shocking amount of teachers who shouldn't be in the job. Reading many a thread on here and looking at the huge amount of schools still only getting satisfactory there are still many in the system.

So the teachers should have their pension untouched because they're all so great and committed is complete tosh. You get good and bad in all sectors,nursing included.

Would just like to add that in no other sector do people jump up the career ladder,getting pay increases yearly just because they've turned up for work.In the private sector you have to work bloody hard to get any increase and some years you'll get nothing.I think this needs to stop(ie pay increase being given when teaching performance is proved in the early days) and and would be a good area to look at re saving money alongside reducing PPA time particularly as it does kids no favours. Sick of my kids being taught by assistants for one fifth of their week,it's way too much.

Should also say that, as a mature entrant to teaching, I know full well that I can do other jobs - middle management in industry, research academic in top university - because I've done them. My current salary is the same as my starting salary in industry 20 years ago, so I know that I would earn more doing that. It's just ... a calling. A view of what's important.

Once you get onto ups you do not get an increase for just turning up.

MrsH - PPA time is 1/10th for everyone except NQTs. Where it's well-managed it actually does kids great favours...put it this way, my PE teaching is not as good as that of the professional football and tennis couaches who cover my PPA!

This thread highlights the key issue, a lack of clarity in the information being provided to the public on all sides. It makes me wonder what is going on in the background.

One of the points that does not seem to be raised is the fact that the public pension data includes both contributory and non-contributory pensions. When talking about a deficit of £X billion, is a large proportion of that due to public sector jobs that get a pension but don't contribute to them?

Do, however, agree on the pay rises - should be performance related right from the beginning.

"looking at the huge amount of schools still only getting satisfactory"

I think you meant to say that 70% of schools are rated good or outstanding. Isn't that great? Satisfactory has also yet, in the English language, to mean 'poor'.

Teacher I think it would get best practise going from day 1 when teachers are fresher and those that weren't suited to it would leave a lot earlier.Also anybody not up to the job wouldn't be getting a salary they didn't deserve(at the tax payers expense).

Thanks for the info re PPA,my kids teachers seem to be off for whole afternoons 1 X weekly but then perhaps they only go half way through or the dc have got it wrong.

teacherwith, I have to disagree with you so strongly on performance-related pay if teacher performance is to be measured by the performance of your classes.

Noble no kid deserves a "satisfactory" education. If my dp wrote computer code that was consistently "satisfactory" he'd be out of a job-pronto! Also one needs to look at results,as others have said we're still dragging our feet and to frank I think even outstanding can be carte blanch for complacency.

Noble, I have - as I assume you do - annual performance reviews at which a range of targets are set (related to pupil progress for particular groups, management responsibilities and personal development). When I say 'performance related' I mean 'performance against personal targets', as would be the case in industry.

Mrs H - a whole afternoon = 1/10th of a week, in fact slightly less in many schools depending on when lunch is taken and when assembly is (for us, a morning is 3 full teaching hours, plus 15 minutes of break, while the afternoon is 1.5 teaching hours + 20 minutes of assembly - PPA is an afternoon, so actually less than we are theoretically entitled to).

Performance related pay should be based on the quality of the teaching not the learner's results. No teacher should be allowed to increment unless they achieve a grade 2 lesson. Teachers achieving grade 1 lessons should be paid an annual bonus.

I do not support the strike next week. If teachers want to be regarded as professionals they need to behave like professionals. Would you enter a hospital where one in three patients entering for routine procedures left in worse state than they arrived. I doubt that you would.

Teachers have extremely generous terms and conditions when compared to other occupations and what is expected of the incumbents.

Noble by performance pay I mean teaching quality,I'm aware it's not a level playing field.You can't go by exam/test results solely. However you can observe wether teachers are consistently producing good lessons and doing a good job.Not sure if it should be all down to senior management though as you can get clashes of personality.

The problem with that is that grading the performance of teachers is very subjective. I have been given an outstanding for a lesson I felt was a good.