to say this to all the teachers who are striking next week

[Memoo]

As a parent I am 100 % behind you.

I really appreciate that you put your life and soul into your job and im sorry more people don't get just how hard you work for the benefit of our children.

Don't let the bastards grind you down!

I think the thing that gets me most about the situation is that it seems so unfair to change the terms and conditions of someone's renumeration package mid career.

I'm all for changing the pensions for new workers but changing it for existing workers seems fundamentally wrong.

I agree Beaver. It's very unfair to change someone's T&C's mid career. Especially when they've been diligently paying in their contribution in good faith.

But the government is in financial dire straits. There simple is not enough money to pay for everything it's inherited.

So whilst it's unfair, it's also inevitable. What would be even MORE unfair (and unrealistic) is to lumber our children with our debts.

My company took away final salary pension from existing workers this year. It was stopped for new employees about 14 years ago, but now taken away from everyone. It's happening everywhere.

Teachers pensions were reviewed and changed in 2006 to make them affordable. Structures were put in place if in the future the teachers pension scheme became unaffordable. There has NOT been an affordability study completed in relation to the teachers pension scheme or any othe public sector pension this year. There is £4.6 billion in the teachers pension fund. Government changes mean that teachers will pay an extra £100 per month (in some cases more) in pension contributions. The government is planning to reduce the pension contributions the employers make.
The government claims that low and middle income earners will be better off than they are now but they will not give details of where the salary threasholds for these employees are, so the deal they are offering is not clear. Negotiations are ongoing but currently the government are not negotiating they are simply saying NO.

I think most people agree that it's bloody galling to have a pension changed mid career, but the pension deficit has to be tackled I think.

I really really don't think we should leave this problem to our DC.

Niceguy2, are you my brother? You always make so much sense just like he does.

Krate7, my brother (I know, you'll all be sick of hearing about him soon) says it's only a few top earning teachers such as heads on 97k a year who will be paying £100 a month more towards their pensions.

I'm not saying that makes it right but if it's true then it is misleading for the unions to be jumping about making it sound like most teachers.

My brother works full time, is on top of scale for a normal teacher. So not head of dept, etc. He says he will pay £12 a month more. So all other teachers will only be paying £12 a month more unless they are heads of depts, etc.

I also think the unions are using this opportunity to tackle the government generally. To fight them on prinicple.

Well as the daughter of a miner I've been there and worn this particular tee shirt. It's shit. The workers don't get anyhting close to what they think they're fighting for but the union bosses get to play politics.

grovel

"Well I would not feel any obligation to strike given the low turnout in the votes. Hardly ringing endorsements of strike action were they?"

you mean like the votes cast for this government?

The teachers pension fund has £4.6 billion in it. Why should their pension contributions be used to pay for the bankers bonuses?

VivaLeBeaver
Basic classroom teachers at the top of the pay scale will lose £124 per month in additional pension contributions. Teachers pay has been frozen so this is a pay cut and a pension cut. Teachers accepted that they would have to work longer in 2006 if the pension scheme became unaffordable. It hasn't!

Will you all please try to understand that you can tax the TINY minority of people earning executive pay levels to 100% and it would still go nowhere to fixing this. And it isn't about who is paying what now. It is the fact that these benefits are guaranteed for ever. None of this is fair on anyone but striking will go nowhere to fixing this and is utterly selfish behaviour by each individual to protect one individual's pot of money at the cost of others and it should not be seen in any other way. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but they are simply the facts and it is wilful delusion to pretend their is any higher moral purpose to it all .

Now there's a huge difference in £12 a month and £120 a month. One is worth striking over the other I'd accept. Where can I actually see these figures for myself.

Striking is the last resort. It is not something people do lightly. Noone can afford to lose a days pay at this time of year. People have been left with no choice when faced with a government that makes harsh offers in the media rather than negotiating as the previous government did in 2006. This is the biggest general strike since 1988 and I'm sure noone wants a return to Thatcher's Britain but it seems that that is what you voted for.

The answer is the Robin Hood Tax

Krate it is idiotic to say that any fund is fully funded now. The whole point of pensions is that they based on future calculations and every actuary in the land has stated that the funds will be in deficit within the next twenty years if we don't act now.

This fact won't change because of a strike.

And on another note, how often will the teachers be prepared to go on strike?
Once a month? Once a week? And for how long?

VivaLaBeaver
go to the teachers pension loss calculator
www.teachers.org.uk/node/12872

niceguy I think you'll find throughout my posts that my reasons for striking have been both clear and consistent. I'll remind you again if you need. I am striking for a fairer, transparent, honest solution to the pensions issue and for better conditions at work. The financial institutes needing to make more of a contribution to the financial crisis is another part of the wider argument.

How am I not being clear?

Why do you think the Labour party won't supprt this strike?
A bit odd given Ed's assistance from the unions in taking the leadership.

Let's be clear why. The government will not back down and the unions are going to lead you into persistent industrial action. The small amount of support you have will dwindle and die. The Labour party will move from lilly livered fence sitting to full frontal condemnation.

To fight them on prinicple.

As my gran used to tell me. It's ok having principles. But principles don't put food on the table.

The stark reality is that there is not enough money. Strike all you like but no more is coming. Well not nearly enough to plug the massive gap.

Ok, Font. Let me ask you this then. Who do you suggest should pay for your pension deficit and better conditions at work? The government I assume? And how do you suggest they fund them?

Fighting for what you believe is one thing. But what you fight for has to be realistic. And that sadly is something the unions don't seem to grasp.

wordfactory
I refer to my previous post about the need for a current affordability study which has not been done. The agreement made in 2006 was about a different pension agreeement for teachers entering the pension scheme from 2007 and agreed acceptable changes to all teachers pension funds if they became unaffordable in the future. This agreement is being ignored and because the government disbanded the school teachers pay review body when it came to power there is noone to independently advise the government anymore.

No one has to pay anything for better working conditions. They need to stop spending money on worthless initiatives and other crap that lasts no more than the term of whichever education secretary is making the decisions. And again, if the govt want to produce an honest, transparent and fair offer then I would personally be happy, even if that means EITHER myself paying more or the govt paying less or everyone paying the same but getting less at the end of it. Or at least being able to retire at the same age as now. The key to me is either/or. Not every attack at every single level.

Which part of that is unreasonable?

If they want to change the pension deal,change it for new entrants into the pension scheme,not the ones that are already in it.

Yesterday I heard that my last client standing is selling their business and as of Jan 2012 my business is bust. I will not qualify for state support having been self employed for so long, I have no pension. Yes I am utterly f**ked.

So tonight when I go and pick up my children and stand there waiting for them to come out with the parents, three teachers, a doctor, a policeman and two admin types all public sector who are moaning and groaning about changes etc it is going to take every ounce of my self control not to tell the whole sodding crew to F**K OFF. they all have jobs, which yes are tough, they all have pensions they can all plan and go forward.

So to the entire f**king bunch of wingers who are striking, I would kill to be in your shoes. I am screwed, frightened and utterly sick to the back teeth of hearing how life isn't fair.

Well get this, come and stand in my shoes today and see just how f**king unfair life is.

Some facts ( Sorry for reposts):

If you have paid into the old scheme for 15 years you still get the 15/60 or the 15/80 x your final salary (along with a lump sum of 3 x this annual pension if you opted for the 15/80 option). The final salary will be the one you get at original final pension age. This is payable at original retirement age as previously agreed. What you paid for you get. If you have less than 10 years to retire you have no alterations to pension.

After this though (the idea is 2015) onwards your contributions move to the new pension scheme (this maybe career average linked-infact very likely). Contributions will increase (this is planned to be staggered). You can of course opt out, change job......... This will still be a great index linked (CPI) pension scheme with protection for spouse/partner.

The only problem I occasionally think is unfair is the switch from RPI to CPI and this is to be challenged in court. As contributions had been paid in expecting RPI.