to think posters who say ....

[troisgarcons]

"get a cleaner"
"get an au pair"
"get an ironing lady"
"a nanny is only 24K per annum"

Really need to get a grip with reality and realise those people who work might actually need to work and dont have excess cash to pay for domestic staff? So it's often a stealth boast comment designed to make those who are stressed out actually a whole lot more inadequate than they are already feeling.

I realise this a foreign concept to some. The "having to work" thing. But if you are cash flush and able to employ a Lituanian doormat maid you would have already covered that base and installed her in the garage. Quite possibly you wouldnt be posting on here to vent your speen and admit you are having difficulty coping.

MrsDeV - I think cleaning is a lot less damaging than some other ways of dealing with the kind of crap the world has thrown at you, TBH.

I am also eternally grateful that there are people in the world who enjoy cleaning, find it satisfying and are good at it, and more grateful that some of them are prepared to do it in other people's house for money. My cleaner is such a person. Unfortunately right now she is trying to combine it with a degree course and looking after her DC and it is not really working, which is both her loss and mine, as I am slowly resigning myself to finding someone else.

Can I have an E cloth instead of a duster please? They work better.

Or perhaps a Cath Kidston duster. Not to use , just to look at.

I have cleaned out a kitchen cupboard since my last post.

No - its fine. I know I am a mentalist. But I am a dust free Mentalist

Just incase you were wondering - nope my house isnt all tidy and showhomey (laughs manically a the idea)

Dont cry.....

It will mark the surfaces......

They've just opened a new Cath Kidston shop in Bluewater - I WILL GO AND GET YOU A DUSTER!

Do they actually sell dusters? That's a bit...mad isn't it?

LOL at Cath Kidston dusters just to look at - DH didn't at all get my fury when he used one of the Cath Kidston J-cloth type things I had bought in a weak moment to mop up something which was, inevitably, going to stain it beyond all bleaching. (DH: it's just a J-cloth, that's what they are for; me: )

There were some posh dusters in Sainsbos for a while. Suzie someone or other made them. They were really expensive and I scoffed.

Until I saw them on sale in the Pound Shop, then I bought a half hundred weight

Oh yes, Shirl they do

There is a CK outlet store in Bicester now. My "its a stupid anti-feminist waste of money" resolve may weaken if/when I get around to going Christmas shopping.

Ha ha ha at both of you mad duster people.

sigh I long for the day I have a bit of spare cash - I'm getting a cleaner, some childcare and I'm sending everything out to a laundry service to come back magically cleaned and ironed - lovely

I don't get people who seem to think employing a cleaner is some form of exploitation - this isn't 1811 and cleaners are not servants livign in the attic, working 364 days a year, 18 hours a day for a pittance. They earn more per hour than you would in Tesco and the hours are more flexible. It's a job, where money is paid for services provided, not a form of slave labour.

Mind you, I know from working in Tesco that plenty of people look down their noses at you there, too.

And people who employ them are not Lady Mucks who think they are 'too important' to clean up after themselves. Maybe they're very busy, maybe they just hate housework. I don't see it's anyone else's business. But hey, some people just love sneering, don't they.

I can't wait till I can afford a cleaner!

I have just been cleaning the far left corner worktop. Its under the cupboard where we keep the sugar and anything sweet. DS2 has ASD and is like a fecking ninja if he gets a whiff of anything sweet.

Anyway I have just discovered that when OH oiled the worktops last he didnt bother to fecking clean them first and has oiled over loads of sugar from where DS2 broke in and nicked half a bag full

How the fecking feck am I supposed to get it orf?

I am going to covent garden tommorow. There is a CK there. I will go and have a little 50s housewife style sigh over the chi chi cleaning materials.

I dunno OP.
Like others have said, some people, and it tends to be women, make a moral imperative out of keeping a house in order. And sometimes they would do better to outsource.

Obviously if they can't afford it then there's the answer. But often it's just a silly female pride standing in the way : the idea that as a woman one ought to be able to do everyhting.

Oh and I have a housekeeper. I treat her very well and she has been with us over ten years.

MrsDeV - whilst on the subject (which has nothing at all to do with the OP) - something that has always puzzled me, and since you are clearly the expert - yellow dusters - why???? Every time I have one (God only knows where they come from - I don't buy them) it ends up being chucked in the "cleaning cloths" bucket to be washed with all the other assorted t-towels, flannels, etc, etc and sneaks through un-noticed and dyes the whole bloody lot pale yellow - Why would you make dusters in such a stupid impractical colour?

Oh - and your sugar problem - get DH to scrape it down and then re-oil it.

Yellow dusters are rubbish. They leave a trail of yellow lint in their wake and they always leech into the washing.

I say discard your yellow dusters and buy an ecloth instead.

Luverly.

Yeah I reckon OH will be a'scraping this weekend whilst I am out socializing getting pissed at the MN meet up.

Wordfactory at the risk of being sycophantic, I have always wanted a housekeeper, and would rather work longer hours myself to have one.

As it is, I am too poor even for a cleaner once a week, so my house is chaotic and a bit grubby round the edges (I do clean the bathroom, kitchen and beds, but hoovering is very intermittent and dusting never occurs).

I do find it surprising though, that when people are really hard up and in debt, they still persist in having a cleaner. I would love one, but it is a luxury and it doesn't make sense to have to earn lots more to pay a cleaner unless you earn a really large amount even after tax. For many people, it doens't make financial sense. For those who have enough money, fantastic!

Could some of the cleaners with OCD please PM me there number i need a new one .

Seriously though my DM was never very good at housework in fact at times there was squalor we never had sky or expensive holidays but getting a cleaner was one of the best things she ever did for us I was embarrassed to bring friends home before and cleaner turned out to be sort of mother role model type whilst dm was at work . Now I see my cleaner as a mental health necessity, I can spend 3 hours a week of my time cleaning or I can pay a cleaner 30 quid go to work and earn 3 times that. Why would i do it myself? And it's about spreading the wealth surely, I don't consider it to be as someone put it cleaning the shit of your loo, my cleaner is putting herself through University this is helping her.

Telling someone to get a cleaner, if they cannot afford it, is silly.
Telling people who can afford a cleaner that they should not have one is ridiculous.
Your measure as a person does not come down to whether or not you Hoover your own staircase.
Anyone who thinks it does is an arse.

I watched my mother clean, cook and wash for 8 children. No washing machine, no labour saving devices to speak of. Did it make her a better person or parent or partner?
No. It just made her very tired.
I shall do as I please.

Hardgoing it is a luxury to have help of course. But it also makes sense for DH and I. We are both self employed and our time is far better spent earning and growing our businesses than doing household chores.

It also hugely relieves me of the burden, as DH works absurd hours and really must spend any free time he has with the family.

I had a cleaner before DH finished work. I work 10 hours a day, and DH used to get home, cook tea and get DS to bed before I got back most nights so no time for cleaning in the week.

When I get home at 7pm earliest, I have a quick play/story with DS if he's up and then usually have some more work to do later in the evening. So the only free time I have with my DS and DH is Sat/Sun. So why should we all be cleaning the windows, sweeping the floors etc if I can afford for us not to be.

How did I manage to afford it:

I don't have SKY
I don't smoke
I don't drink
I don't have pets
I don't have debts

So we had a Portugese cleaner who had moved here to help her 4 kids have a better education and standard of living. She relied on the 5 people she worked for for this, and cleaning enabled her to work her hours round her kids. She didn't have the qualifications or aptitude to work in many other forms of employment, and due to her previous life of DV, she felt safe working for families who were reliable and friendly in the privacy of their homes. Plus - she took pride in the job she did, and would tell me off for doing it before she came.

I think also some posters have got the wrong end of the stick. The majority of women don't have a "lady who does", they have a firm with staff that come round and do the necessary deep clean jobs. I didn't leave a trial of dirty plates everywhere, and drop my dirty knickers into her hand as I left. She was there to deep clean the stairs, skirting boards, cobwebs etc. As a family we took care of our laundry, skid marks, dirty dishes etc.

If you can afford it, why shouldn't you take a bit of your life back? I am time short thanks to my job but can hardly tell my employer that i can't travel to Bavaria for 3 days next week because the skidmarks in the downstairs toilet are out of control.

Why judge people in very different situations to your own?

Nobody is telling people who cannot afford a cleaner to get one anyway. Those "get a cleaner" statements are always followed by "if you can afford".

so many people who could afford one and would really need one will not get one though because they will be seen as "too posh to scrub". Which is just silly. I love my cleaner, makes my life so much easier. She has a job and I pay her well. Win-win.

well get this

i am a self employed cleaner

i now have so many clients i am going to be working every day (go me!) so i am now looking for a cleaner for my own house as i won't have the energy time to do my own cleaning to my ocd level standards

:o and

Go Misty!!!!

yabu

if you have 2 people working FT, that pay for childcare, run 2 cars etc they can find £80PM for a cleaner quite frankly, even if it means economising elsewhere

Misty do you want another client [pissed off person whose cleaner has not turned up AGAIN and who will doubtless get a text giving her (valid) reason for not doing so at about 6pm] ?

It's not that I mind that she has to work around family issues. God only knows I understand that. But if I am going to have to find time to clean the house badly myself before visitors turn up, I need to know that more than half an hour in advance [grump].

stealth i cant believe how many shit cleaners there are out there that do this kind of thing i hear about it all the time! on the rare occasions (and there have literally been a couple) i have not been able to come, i have given plenty of advance notice. you should get rid! plenty of cleaners out there who actually want the work.

you're not in the midlands by any chance are you, if you are i may be able to squeeze you in to my busy schedule

I am Misty - but which bit are you in?!