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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to consider moving my family to Brazil?

25 replies

manicinsomniac · 22/11/2011 22:06

I'm thinking of applying for jobs in Brazil. Not permanently, just for a few years. My extended family (mainly my mother - understandably I guess - are outraged)

My reasoning:
I am totally in love with the country and one of my main passions is working with street children.
My children are half Brazilian and their father has always lived there. They have never met him and I don't think I'd want them to but I guess that could always change.
I think it's good for my children to know that not all children are as fortunate as UK kids are.
I speak fairly fluent Portuguese and my children can get by in the language.
My children could attend an English speaking school

My Mum's argument:
I am being selfish and not thinking of my children's best interests, just my own wants
My grandparents are old and could die while I am gone
My children's father is an awful man and I don't want to run the risk of him finding us.
Young children shouldn't be exposed to children living in poverty
Brazil is not a safe environment

I haven't mentioned the idea to the children yet. I think they'd be up for it but I acknowledge I may be being selfish.

Thoughts?

OP posts:

MudAndGlitter · 22/11/2011 22:08

I think it's a brilliant idea. I'd love to have the guts to do something like that. I see your mums point of view but I think your DCs would get so much out of it

BaronessBomburst · 22/11/2011 22:39

I'm with your mum on this one. It sounds like your heart is ruling your head. Can't you just take them there on an extended holiday or something? How old are they?

JaneFonda · 22/11/2011 22:44

Do it. Just go for it!

You will LOVE it, your kids will honestly get so much out of it - I have many friends who have moved abroad with their children, and they have all been incredibly happy.

Young children shouldn't necessarily be protected from the realities of life, I was shown poverty when I was younger and I can honestly say it had a positive effect on me, rather than scaring me.

redpanda13 · 22/11/2011 22:45

I lived in Rio for a bit in the early 90's. I had a bit of a love/hate thing with Brazil then. I never had any trouble but I was there during a drug war and it felt 'edgy'. I would love to go back and see if it has changed so much with the economy doing well and crime in Rio down. I would love to take DD when she is older and show her the country. Relive my cross-country bus ride to Iguazu with the prostitutes and smugglers Show her the memorial to the street children killed by police in Rio (if it is still there)

I can see why your mother would be worried though. You know the country and you know the risks though. My Brazilian half sister had one school friend murdered. I was brought up in rural Scotland and one of my school friends was murdered. My step mother was not the victim of a violent crime until she went on holiday to Cape Town and got mugged on her first day there. Would your mum be so worried if you were considering moving to South Africa?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 22/11/2011 22:48

They're 4 and almost 9.

Yes, we could go out for the Summer. But we've been there, done that and I really want to do more out there. I know it's stupid and idealistic to think I can make any difference but going there for a few weeks, getting to know the ins and outs of these children's lives and then just leaving them again is heartbreaking. I feel like I could do more.

But yeah, I just realised how many 'I's there are in that paragraph! My own children do need to come fast - just need to work out if I can cover both - personally I think I can but who knows. Will gather more opinions!

OP posts:

faeriefruitcake · 22/11/2011 22:50

I went to live abroad when I was 9, we went to Egypt. It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. Yes we saw abject poverty but it didn't really impact on me until I was much older. We were there when Sadat was assassinated.

It opened my eyes and mind to the world and set me on my career path. I went to an international school and met children from around the world.

Downside I missed my friends and grandparents but we wrote and visited. My great gran died whilst we were there and my Gran had a massive stroke but again as a child it really didn't impact.

I would love to take my family abroad, it can be an amazing life.

schroedingersdodo · 22/11/2011 23:17

Crime down in Rio? Don't believe that.

I think being in contact with poverty and seeing how less fortunate people live is good. I agree with your mum in the point that Brazil is not one of the safest places in the world. How dangerous is debatable (DH insists it's perfect safe, even after having a gun pointed to his head, having a friend murdered, etc). I, personally, am from Brazil and feel much safer in the UK.

But it all depends a lot on where exactly you plan to go. It's a very interesting place, no doubt, and it will be a very enriching experience to your DCs.

troisgarcons · 22/11/2011 23:27

My children are half Brazilian and their father has always lived there. They have never met him and I don't think I'd want them to but I guess that could always change.

They're 4 and almost 9.

How does that work then? The 9yo must have been 5 when you had the 4yo.

redpanda13 · 22/11/2011 23:43

schroedingersdodo - I did wonder that the reports of crime being down had anything to do with the two big events being hosted in the next few years? I may be having a misty, watercoloured memories moment too. Forgets the flat hunting and having to check the walls for plastered over bullet holes etc

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 22/11/2011 23:44

troisgarcons - without going into too much detail, I stupidly met up with him while on holiday in Brazil. It was scary, didn't end well and younger daughter was the result. Haven't seen him since and won't make that mistake again.

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 22/11/2011 23:49

Would you be living in the same area as the street kids and would your children be at particular risk?

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 23/11/2011 00:09

no and I don't think so, really. More risk than in England I guess.

OP posts:

redpanda13 · 23/11/2011 00:19

WorraLiberty - I can only speak about Rio as I only passed through other Brazilian cities. I thought before I went to Rio that the slums would be on the outskirts of the city. They are not. Rio is hilly and the slums are dotted in between. I lived in Ipanema which is a fairly wealthy district and it is neighboured by one of the largest slums in South America. Also did not realise that the people in the slums are mainly working poor working people - maids, concierges etc. The really poor and destitute set up home for the night wherever there is a bit of spare ground. I saw small children and women with babies sleeping like this. There are street kids everywhere and it is heartbreaking. It was a real eye opener to to actually see such poverty first hand.

WorraLiberty · 23/11/2011 00:21

I know

I've only seen it on TV and that broke my heart

OP, you know the country and you know your own kids so I suppose only you can decide whether they'll settle there or not.

eminencegrise · 23/11/2011 00:26

I'm with your mother on this one. I'd also be concerned about the childrens' father finding us.

Jux · 23/11/2011 00:26

Life is for living. Your kids will be fine and will readjust when/if you ever come back. You could wait 20 years for your gps to die and then your mum would say someone else was about to ......

Go. Have a good time. Do something useful and set your kids a fine example. Best of luck. I envy you massively.

Bogeyface · 23/11/2011 00:43

There are other places that you can live and help.

Some friends of mine are moving to Guatamala next week for up to5 years to run an orphanage. The DH (British) is a charity worker and he met my friend when he was working in Peru, she is Peruvian, and she was doing some legal work for his charity. They came to the UK for 5 years after they married but the plan was always to move on again into other charity work. They almost moved to Ethiopia last year but issues with her sons meant that they decided against it.

My main issue in your plan is your ex, and the fact that you seem to have an idealised vision of how it will be.

ShengdanRoad · 23/11/2011 03:46

Do it! It will be an amazing experience for you and your DC.

Living abroad is unbeatable.

lubeybooby · 23/11/2011 06:29

I'm a very 'go for it!' type person, the only thing that worries me though is this stuff with the kids father - it sounds bad and I would worry about you risking any contact.

If you think you can avoid having anything to do with him and you think you will be able to protect yourself and the children from him then yes go for it - but if not, don't.

pinkee · 23/11/2011 06:40

Another go for it from me - but make sure you are comfortable with your decision and the risks involved.

fretfree · 23/11/2011 06:43

I think it is a great idea. My parents moved to France for a short period (a few years) when I was young and it still remains one of the best times of my life. I ended up being fluent in french and found learning other languages far easier. Your youngest will pick up the language even quicker (both will compared to me as they already have some command of portuguese - I was fine after about 3 months, but went to a french school). There is a huge difference in outlook between those who have lived abroad (not just holiday-ed) and those who have not in my opinion.

The only thing I would echo from the other posters is the situation with the father - check out the legal position and his rights before you go. Are you going to go to where he lives / is from? How would he know that you were even in the country? If he did find out, can he prevent you leaving with the children by law? Does he even know that they exist? Does he have any contact with friends / family in the UK who might alert him to the fact that you are there?

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 23/11/2011 07:34

Thanks for all the reassurance and warnings.

I'm not overly concerned about my ex I don't think. The jobs I'm looking at are in a city 8 hours away from his and, though we do have a lot of friends in the other city who I would want to be in touch with, they are not friends of his and it's a big place. I don't see why he'd find out we were there and he has no UK contacts. He doesn't know the younger daughter exists and, though he does know about the first, he never expressed any interest in meeting her.

OP posts:

lisianthus · 23/11/2011 07:45

Go for it, especially as you speak the language, but first check the legal position re your DD. I know you think he won't find out, but if he does, you don't want to discover that he has enforceable rights to her.

suburbophobe · 23/11/2011 07:45

I say go for it, and I presume their father is not on their birth certificate?

Just asking cos I know in Brazil you need permission from Dad if you're taking the kids out of the country.

If you don't do this, you will regret it for your whole life.....

Chandon · 23/11/2011 07:48

Hello, we have lived in South America for over 6 years, in fact my children were born there. It was different of course, as I went with partner too.

To me, wanting to live there is normal, exciting and not selfish.

In reality, my children (who were small at the time, 4 and 6 when we left) really struggled with the poverty and the beggars. My oldest DS is very sensitive and would cry if I walked past a beggar without giving money, or if he's see a family with a baby sleeping in a cardboard box. That was really hard, you know? it's a bit much to deal with for a young child IMHO. Another thing that was hard was the fear of the kids being kidnapped (but we were in the kidnap capital of the world) and living in a country where you cannot trust the police, and it took years to shake my paranoia.... You have to live by very different rules. A child here may find it normal to wear Nikes and carry and i-pod, over there they could be attacked for less. Not mean to scare you, but you really have to adapt and lose some of your first world "rights" (never wear jewellery, expensive phones etc.) . Remember when all teh people came out of the Favela's in Rio to rob the people on the beach? Still, Rio is supposed to be a lot safer than Sao Paulo.

We moved back when oldest was 6. I wanted to live in the first world again.

Still, it was a great adventure and it "made us" as a family.

Just make sure you do your homework, find out if your XP has any rights in Brazil (in some countries the man could get the children, could he claim them?)

We think about maybe moving to Brazil one day actually. Would not move to SP, but maybe Rio. People are lovely.

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