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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this is wrong, wrong, WRONG - or could it be that she is right?

80 replies

Bugsy2 · 22/11/2011 15:05

My own experience with ex-H colours my view, so I thought I'd run it by the court of MN.
I've been friends with another single mum from school for a couple of years now. I went out with her on Sat night & she obviously thought we'd got to the stage where she could confide in me.
She told me that she has been having an affair with a married man for 6+ years. She doesn't want him to leave his wife (& DCs) and it sounds (from her) as though he doesn't have any intention of doing so. She says that she is saving his marriage, because without her he would have left years ago. Obviously there were hours of chat, but that is the bones of it.
This has to be wrong doesn't it? I was stunned, as she doesn't strike me as the delusional type - let alone a husband shagger.
Oh, I did ask her what she got out of it & (as a brief summary) she said lots of great sex & a close friendship she values.
Maybe I need to have a more French view of life - perhaps it is fine? It has completely changed the way I see her. AIBU?

OP posts:

squeakytoy · 22/11/2011 15:42

I would pity her that she isnt capable of finding a man who really cares about her, and is settling for a man that just uses her for a shag.

I dont believe for a moment that she is happy with the situation, she is just kidding herself, and is resigned to it.

TheCountessRoyalofBlood · 22/11/2011 15:43

Cheating. Horrible, am not sure I would be able to have the same relationship with her

I know walk in another persons shoes etc etc, but I remember a friends mum who was openly having an affair in front of her dh, her dh had MS and was quite seriously ill with it but he knew and he looked so very sad about it too. I found it very difficult to spend time with this friend after that as she was more than happy for her dm, but I just found it a little bit odd.

For some reason I feel differently about those who have an affair/ new relationship when their partner has Alzheimers or Dementia possibly because the person they once were is no longer there, but other situations I just can't find the sympathy for the cheater or the mistress. Sorry.

ThePickledGerbil · 22/11/2011 15:45

Bleurgh, you can be all 'open-minded' and 'French' until it happens to you.

I had a close friend for many years who was seeing a married man. I'm thoroughly ashamed to say I thought it was harmless and quite enjoyed hearing the details.

Then my H had an affair (not with said friend!) and it caused such pain, devastation, misplaced guilt blah blah blah, that I just couldn't stay friends with my friend who was an OW.

Everytime I saw her I felt the potential damage she could assist this man in doing his family. Made me vomity and angry.

Dropped her like a bag of cold sick.

Original poster

Bugsy2 · 22/11/2011 15:46

I'm trying not to judge. I am a bit of a shades of grey person & think I'm quite tolerant. I guess most of my friends know that ex-H had an affair, & even if they were all shagging around they probably wouldn't mention it to me. A tiny part of me thinks that if she doesn't want to "steal" him, then maybe that is better, than him pursuing someone who might want to break up his home.
This sounds so dreadful, but apparently he loves his wife - but more like a sister. He even admires her for being such a devoted mum, but he finds her boring. Made me want to vomit on my shoes, as I could just imagine ex-H coming out with this shit.

OP posts:

dreamingofsun · 22/11/2011 15:46

i'd be careful if i were you flatbread. the last 3 husbands i know locally had affairs with one of their wife's friends. and what a mess that ended up as each time.

fedupofnamechanging · 22/11/2011 15:48

I think I would find it very hard to remain friends with someone whose moral values were so different to my own.

I think that you can make excuses for a young person having an affair with a married person - they are arguably too young to understand what it means to trust someone with your whole life, and to fully comprehend the damage affairs do to the person who has been cheated on. A grown woman, who knows what marriage means, should behave better. No excuses.

I find it hard to understand why any self respecting woman would want a man who is capable of being such a sleaze

flatbread · 22/11/2011 15:50

I think a sure way to lose a friend is to comment on their relationships or parenting style. if you have nothing positive to say, don't say it.

If I distanced myself from all types of behaviours I am against, I would have to give up my cheating friends, my banker friends, my tight-fisted friends, my seriously-irritatingly-indulgent-parenting friends and so on and I would be left with my own virtuous company :)

Davsmum · 22/11/2011 16:03

I've had a couple of friends who have had affairs with married men. One thought she was in love and they would be together one day, the other was just having a god time as far as I know.
Both of them knew that I thought they were daft and they knew it wasn't something I was comfortable with - however, it was their own business and had no effect on us being friends..

NannyTutorAtLarge · 22/11/2011 16:20

I'm with you on the 'shades of grey' train here. A close friend's relationship began as an affair, with them both cheating on their exes. Also, her current partner's ex was his business partner at the time and it was a huge, godawful mess. Sides taken, fists shaken, and she was terribly judged (typically much more so than him) by all and sundry in both professional and personal circles. A few of us struggled with what she was doing, and when asked we were honest with her. As our mate, though, we were clear that we were there for her no matter how much of a tit she was being - let's face it, enough people were going to give her a hard time without us joining in. Essentially, I think everyone does blindingly stupid things every now and again, and part of being friends with someone is supporting them through those times.

Incidentally, I think your friend's assertion that she's saving his marriage might not be just a 'watery defence' - it's more likely perhaps that she's feeling guilty and needs to believe this...either way, hope you can keep the friendship!

Original poster

Bugsy2 · 22/11/2011 16:28

I think after 6 years, she genuinely believes that she is saving his marriage, because he hasn't left it for her - if that makes sense. She said she would never ask him to leave, but if he left because he just couldn't take it any more then she would be up for a more conventional relationship.
I am so conflicted, as having respected her for being independent & quite cool - I'm now wondering if she is a bit of a sad case. Obviously, I think he must be a prize tosser - although in a funny way I think, well at least he has kept a stable home for his DCs.
Oh, I wish she hadn't told me.

OP posts:

Firawla · 22/11/2011 16:50

it is wrong, this saving the marriage thing is BS to me because if its such a marriage where he is having an affair all these years then is it worth saving and its all based on a lie. i dont think i could be friends with such a person, its disgusting behaviour, wtf is she thinking..

HereKittyKitty · 22/11/2011 17:07

I'm with A Mum in Scotland and others. I would find this morally questionable and would also feel sad that she didn't have the 100% love of a man. It would make me reconsider the future of my friendship with someone so obviously on a different page from me.

In saying that, I have cheated (in a previous relationship) and I needed help and support from my friends to get out of the situation, being abandoned by them would have driven me further into the arms of the OM.

whoopeecushion · 22/11/2011 17:13

Since this affair has been going on for 6 years, it has destroyed any chance of the MM's marriage ever being repaired. It's just too big a betrayal when it's that long. So far from saving it, this affair has ensured it can never ever be fixed. Marriages can be fixed after affairs sometimes, not in this case.

I suppose your decision is: whether your "friend" is deluded or wicked. She sounds deluded, particularly in that she has chosen to tell you, the victim of an affair about this. Having said that, whichever it is doesn't lessen the impact of what she has been a 50% part of. The wife and kids will be hurt just the same in either case.

for everyone concerned.

TobyLeWolef · 22/11/2011 17:18

Meh. I wouldn't judge a good friend based on that. In fact, I wouldn't judge anyone based on that.

Original poster

Bugsy2 · 22/11/2011 17:20

Just so you don't think she is a complete bitch, she has no idea my ex-H had an affair! For all that I spill the beans on here, I'm a listener rather than a talker in real life.

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ShoutyHamster · 22/11/2011 17:23

The 'saving his marriage' (subtext: in a crazy way I am doing his wife a favour) argument is a crock of bullshit because if his wife knew what kind of man he really was, presumably she wouldn't want to save anything except the bank account numbers for the solicitor.

Yes she is a sad case - this isn't about some difficult situation in which her role is important and helpful, it's simply about this man being a deceitful, selfish, morally bankrupt taker. Who presumably, if he met someone else who took his fancy (six years? She'd better watch out there, actually- boredom time approaching for you too my dear) would drop her like a bad smell.

What's she getting out of it? A lonely old age to look forward to. Either that or a future relationship with a bloke she knows is capable of mind-bending deceit towards the people he 'loves'.

Poor woman, really - hope he does leave for her though, she deserves him far more than his poor current wife. Who I hope goes on to find future happiness with someone of far better character.

ShoutyHamster · 22/11/2011 17:29

It's also possible/likely that she uses the 'saving his marriage' argument as a way of scripting him as a 'good' man in her head, rather than face up to the fact that he hasn't left his wife because he doesn't need to - he likes having two women and doesn't care enough about her to want to finish his comfy marriage, and doesn't care about his wife enough to stay faithful.

I see what folk are saying about making mistakes and not judging, but six years isn't making a mess, it's just being a long-term cheat.

northerngirl41 · 22/11/2011 17:30

She's not actually cheating though - she's single. I'm not sure why we demonise the woman in this situation. He's the one who is married, he's the one who is lying to his wife. So yes, not unreasonable to be shocked by it, but unreasonable to cut off the friendship as a result.

Personally it's not something I would do, as I'd not like to be getting crumbs of a relationship...
But if I was being cheated on, it's not something I would necessarily throw my marriage away over either. The wife may well prefer not to be that bothered with sex. She might even know he's getting it from somewhere else and turn a blind eye. People get married for all sorts of odd reasons, you're assuming that their marriage is subject to the same rules that yours is. It might not be.

flatbread · 22/11/2011 17:30

Wicked is a strong word...

I am a bit taken aback that people are expressing such strong disapproval and suggesting that she is somehow, bitter or sad or incomplete...why? I can believe that she is reasonably content and happy and independent.

Ps disclaimer, I have never had an affair in case you think this is a self-justifying perspective

ChunkyPickle · 22/11/2011 17:33

I'm with northerngirl - it's not something I'd do, it's hopefully not something my DP would do, but she is single.

Whilst it's not a great situation to be in, he's the one cheating, not her - you can't lure someone away who doesn't want to be lured (it'd be like blaming the doughnut for putting on weight rather than the person eating it)

TobyLeWolef · 22/11/2011 17:34

flatbread, that is how these discussions always go on MN. Nobody ever seems capable of believing that not everyones' marriages are subject to the same rules, as northerngirl very eloquently said.

Mention a woman having an affair with a married man and watch the pitchforks come out and the personal insults fly.

Original poster

Bugsy2 · 22/11/2011 17:38

It is so tricky & I find it hard to be objective. ex-H left me & DCs after I found out about the affair & after trying to salvage the marriage, said I couldn't cope with him staying friends with her. He now believes that she was his "true love".
I've worked with 4 men who also left their wives & moved on to their "true loves".
I'm trying to work out if it is the long-term deception involved that I find really hard to stomach. Yet, one of the men I worked with had an affair for 9 years!!!! He waited until the kids were grown up & then left.
I'm definitely going to need to try & get my head around it.

OP posts:

whoopeecushion · 22/11/2011 17:42

flatbread - my H had an affair when my children were aged 1 and 3. I have no hesitation in describing his actions and those of the OW as wicked. If anything, I'd strengthen it to utterly wicked, not water it down.

whoopeecushion · 22/11/2011 17:46

Yes, Toby, the pitchforks will come out. For very good reason.

Regardless of "the rules the MM's marriage is subject to" - only he and his wife can know/decide that. The OW is an intruder and likely does not know anything about the marriage apart from the claptrap the MM feeds her - not only is he deluding her, but also himself.

flatbread · 22/11/2011 19:30

Whoopee, I am so sorry. I can understand that it must have been very difficult.

But shouldn't your anger be for the scumbag who betrayed your trust and let down his own children, not the OW. After all, he is an adult and should be able to say 'no', despite any temptation. The OW may not have been honourable, but 'wicked' should be reserved for the lying, cheating husband.

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