To think Beavers would allow...

[chocolategateaudeluxe]

...a 7-year-old child to make their own way from parent's car, through the door (5 yards from car), to Beavers Meeting!

I got told off for dropping him at the door! The reason being they might not have been there. They obviously were - the door was open, light in the hall was on, loads of cars were there etc. I'm not stupid!

I mean isn't the whole point of Beavers to support young people in their physical, mental and emotional wellbeing, to promote independence?!? Didn't they use to camp in the woods, learn survival skills, make fires, handle pocket knives?

Tell me if IABU but I don't see how I could be...

Can you imagine the headlines "7 year old beaver goes missing after leader sends him out to play in dark" there would be uproar and rightly so.

Sending them out to play doesn't suddenly mean they have no responsibility for the child.

You are being very unrealistic and it would appear missing the points being made by many here.

I would be responsible in all of those cases, clearly! It is highly unlikely that a volunteer would hit my son (they are CRB checked, dedicated to what they do, experienced, have kids of their own, etc.), that is a risk I am willing to take.

You talk of rules... I have two questions:

How did we manage before?

How do all the other (Western European) countries manage without?

If everybody wasn't quite as anal in following them maybe they would not be as neccessary, just thinking...

maybe you should consider the woodcraft folk, who may be a little more "right on" about personal freedoms.

Otherwise, accept that you are wrong and take your child in. Thats what....an extra 3 minutes of inconvenience? You can let him have all the freedom in the world when you are able to take full responsibility for him. But on Beaver time, you have to follow Beaver rules, regardless of your own personal opinions. AT the point you let your child out the car, you are asking the leaders to take responsibility for him. ANd if they dont even know he's there, how can they do that?

The reason for a lot of this H&S is the litigious society in which we live. Parents want their children to do outdoorsy things but threaten to sue if little Jonny falls out a tree.

Leaders are between a rock and a hard place - we have the kids who wear cotton wool jackets and bubble wrap trousers and are not allowed to do anything, then we have the gung ho parents who take no responsibily and really dont give a F* as long as they get an hour off and their child is entertained. But will be first in line with Mssers Sue Grabbit and Runne
if anything happens to their child.

Crb doesn't guarantee someone is safe.
It doesn't guarantee that a child won't make allegations.

Organisations only need these policies because of the country we live in and the fact people will sue over everything.

The best way to prevent this is to have policy in place to protect everyone. Believe me as a youth leader it drives me mad at times but it's got to be done to keep everyone safe.

I don't think YBU. I'm sure I used to throw DD2 out at school at that age and expect her to go into school if the parking was bad.

Flying overseas alone at 5?? Are you sure fostering your child's independence is your primary concern here, or do you parent so lazily as to put your son at risk? Maybe you should get just a little more involved with your child.

Flogginmolly What exactly makes you think I parent lazily?

I walk my child to school everyday, I accompany him to the majority of the 3 or 4 hobbies he enjoys, we do something nice every weekend (mainly outdoors). He only gets homemade things for his birthday/bun sales/etc. Not lazy.

So why is getting out the car to take your son into the meeting so hard?

I really struggle to understand the issue

Thanks Ragwort, for the present/card comment - another one who'll be buying for our (wonderful) Beavers leaders here.
Completely in support of Beavers leaders here - they would be held at least partly responsible if there was a problem, so you need to make the (very little) effort. It's not exactly that big a deal. If you want your dc to feel independent, just let him go on ahead of you.

yabu, at ours you need to sign in child and they don't release till they see a parent for obvious reasons! Bit miffed that you actually need that pointing out to you to be honest! And yes i am also a parent that encourages independence, outdoor play no tv and computers etc, but it's obvious why you should sign in your child!

Sirzy It's not like I do it every time, most times I go inside with him. It's just, for instance, if I am ill, feeling grotty and don't want to spread my germs around, I don't see what the problem is to drop him off, WATCH him go (and stay) inside...

If you're well enough to drive, you're well enough to get out of the car and walk a few yards with your son.

You seem to be making excuses now to suit your argument.

Their rules. Accept them or go else somewhere else. Simples.

Speaking as a Brownie leader who gets demoralised by the lack of courtesy from some parents - I've been doing it for a decade and have in all that time received a total of, oh, four Christmas cards - it's heartening to see the positive comments here recognising that volunteer-run groups do offer something valuable to children.

I am very much in sympathy with allowing children to take risks but they still have to be managed risks - which is why Guiding has copious policies on risk assessment - and I find it mind-boggling that being asked to get out of the car is seen as such a huge infringement of personal liberty. I've had Brownie meetings where we've had to send the Brownies straight home because of an unforeseen problem and it's a PITA if you have to chase a car down the road trying to catch the parent's attention because they haven't actually come in with their child.

My dd and her friend walk in on brier own, they are 9. In the summer they walk from my house to the hall, a 5 minute walk.
They are always collected from the hall by an adult though

Brier? Their!

Speaking as a cub leader could I say that the majority of my parents are great, helpful and thankful to the team (often on a weekly basis).

OP sorry but YABU - cubs are older and aren't allowed to leave the hall without a parent. I'm usually on my own at the start so I have to request any parents wait until another leader arrives or the person on parent rota so that I'm not putting myself or the cub at any risk

Put yourself in our place for five minutes and imagine how you would cope with 18 or 20 or 24 cubs who all belong to other people. The least we deserve is the respect of your head popped round the door to check everyone is there

YABU and showing very little respect for the Beaver leaders who have to have very strict policies in place to protect children in their care.
And how have you managed to find an airline that lets a child of 5 fly on his own?

Jandy, they don't fly on their own. They go as 'unaccompanied minors'. You pay for this service. Your child is collected from you shortly before boarding and escorted to the plane. Then escorted through at the other end and handed over to the adult you have designated. They have an adult with them at all times.

This is how my daughter travels even now at 18. But she's autistic so doesn't have to pay.

Exactly. Handed over at both ends to an adult.

Ok, what's the rationale with birthday party's then?

Apart from having 15 kids dumped on me for 2 hours (in other countries if the child is not old enough to make their way on their own to the party, parents stay with them, if they are, parents don't), nobody has ever enquired about my CRB status, checked adult-child-ratio etc. So if something happened to a child at the party, I could be sued?

Because they are massive youth organisations. You can't compare taking a child to a friends party to the way these organisations have to run. To suggest they are similar is frankly laughable.