To think Beavers would allow...

[chocolategateaudeluxe]

...a 7-year-old child to make their own way from parent's car, through the door (5 yards from car), to Beavers Meeting!

I got told off for dropping him at the door! The reason being they might not have been there. They obviously were - the door was open, light in the hall was on, loads of cars were there etc. I'm not stupid!

I mean isn't the whole point of Beavers to support young people in their physical, mental and emotional wellbeing, to promote independence?!? Didn't they use to camp in the woods, learn survival skills, make fires, handle pocket knives?

Tell me if IABU but I don't see how I could be...

I also find it quite sad that parents cant be arsed to get out of the warm car to accompany their child inside and make sure they are safe, show some interest in what they are doing.

If you think it all seems over the top then I suggest you read the child protection policy to realise just what VOLUNTEERS need to do to comply with the rules and to make sure everyone is safe.

Ok, this is helpful. Will read up on it.

Beavers are young scouts. Once he has finished Beavers (at 8) he will ove up to Cubs, then once he is 10 he will move up to Scouts. Its there they get to do all the fun stuff :o
YABU and a bit lazy.

YABU

Now I've calmed down a bit, I'll give it from a leader's point of view.

I have, on more than one occasion, been left with children on my own, because parents have left them to come in themselves, before another leader arrives. This is totally against our rules. I always ask the first parent to stay till another leader comes in, but if the child's come on their own, how do I do that?

I am not supposed to be on my own with a child, because I could abuse that child. I am also at risk of that child saying I've abused them, so I could end up being accused wrongly, with no grown-up to act as a witness. There has to be two adults there.

That's two reasons. Is that enough?

Totally agree with you Almostfifty - I am also a Leader in Scouting and am shocked at the comments the OP has made. Some parents have no idea whatsoever about what is involved in running these meetings/camps etc etc and the training that is mandatory.

Marlin that is a good point about a card and a small gift at Christmas, Mumsnet is full of threads about what to get teachers at Christmas but in my view (and not because I am a Leader ) it is much more appropriate to thank all those who volunteer to help our children.

I'm quite surprised at the responses to the OP. At 7 surely they are more than capable of walking into a hall 5 yards away from mum's car, the world has gone crazy. Particularly these days with mobiles, our parents didn't have them years ago and we all survived.

And I do have experience of this as I volunteered loads when my DDs were at brownies, went to camp for four days etc. i have huge respect for the time the leaders give up and the effort they put into it all but it still needs to be down to the parents as to how they much freedom they give their kids.

If you dont like the rules - take your son out of Beavers !

or get off your arse out of the car and help out now and again.

Sandyballs - times may or may not have changed, but the legislation has! I'm sure most people would like to know their children are being looked after by people who stick to the rules to keep them safe?!

YABU for the reasons given, however I do think it's a great shame that you do need to drop your 11 year old off - they should be walking there by themselves, 11 is way too old to need to be escorted to and from every event for a lot of kids. Of course it's for the protection of the adults more than the children.

Give your children all the freedom you like at other times. I don't think its a massive ask of parents to take the effort it takes to come into the building, make sure their child is safely inside say hi to the leaders and then head home is it?

Many reasons have been given why it isn't in the slightest bit unreasonable to expect parents to actually wait until they have seen the leader to leave.

My DS age 11 goes to Scouts - they ask that parent bring them to the meeting hall just in case leader is not there (held up) or the venue has been changed for that night and parents have forgotten.

He walks home on his own though . (in the dark too !)

the primary reasons we have for a child not being dumped at the gate is to ensure that

a) there are enough adults for the number of children. This is a legal requirement in under 8's. Within Scouts, there are very strict guidelines on the appropriate number of adults for indoor and outdoor activities. Before now, I have decided to send all kids home due to a lack of adults. Amazingly, I usually get a volunteer to help then.

b) "yellow card" issues - as outlined above, Scout leaders should never place themselves in a position where an allegation of abuse could arise. An adult may not be alone with a child. Ever.

c) sometimes, leaders arrange to meet at alternate locations. Unless you are 100% sure that the meeting is at the hut that night, you should always take your child in.

d) ARe you so organised that you have never sent your child without a coat? WIthout a torch? without the form for his activity next week?

e) probably the best one and the most important. The Beaver leader deserves your courtesy and respect. They give up so much time every week - I guess I do about 10 hours a week prep/admin/training/meetings/risk assessments so that I can do a full and varied program of exciting events and activities.

I am leaving Beavers at the end of this term due to the obnoxious behaviour of one parent. AFter 6 years. I run one of the most popular colonies in the area, we have a waiting list that is a joke its so big, and yet I do not get so much as a thank you from rude families.

Oh and Last year, I did not even get a single Christmas card from any of the 24 children I take care of every week. Not one.

Like others say, its a shame that Scouting is just another dumping ground for some kids.

Thats awful Hatti! I do think parents don't realise the impact that simply saying "thank you" has on leaders morale. When a young person comes up to me at the end of an event and says "thanks I have had a great time" it makes it all worth while.

When my voluntary work was in one unit every christmas I used to get presents and cards from the Young People. I never expected it but it was nice to be thanked.

Well apart from the fact that it's a bit lazy not to get out of the car and impolite not simply to say hello, I find it sad that British Scouting has moved so far away from Baden Powell's original ideals for children to learn responsibilities towards oneself and others, to take risks in life and see them as a way of gaining security, and instead health and safety have destroyed BP's ideals. In Belgium, there is a slow move also towards H&S, but over here Scouting is still very much geared towards guiding young children to make their own decisions and that risk taking is an essential real life lesson.

In Belgium, our 6 year old is free to cycle to Beavers, spends the day in the woods, returning to the "barn" for lunch, or goes out with her troupe of 35 6-8 year olds and 7 young leaders aged 17-25 to museums, city parks, historical monuments. She has just returned from a 2 night camp (it was actually in a primary school in the countryside), will go on a camp later in the year with the other 700 members of her unit, then a 7 day camp in a farmer's barn during the Summer holidays. I place my trust in these young leaders to gently guide our daughter towards eventual independence. She could never have such experiences in the UK Scouting movement.

I do very much agree with HattiFatner's comments though, as regards to rudeness of parents and use of Scouts as a dumping ground for low cost child care. In fact in Belgium, the situation of dropping your child off without getting out of the car would ironically be a major taboo, not because of H&S concerns, but because you absolutely have to say hello to the leaders and kiss all of them, yes every single one of them!!!! 7 lots of kisses at every meeting.

I was a Beaver Leader and I agree entirely with Sirzy.
I was only covered if I stuck rigidly to the rules. e.g it might sound silly but when I gave my neighbour's DS a lift to save her turning out I had to make it quite plain that I was taking him as a friend and I was not taking him as a Beaver Leader.
Had OP DS not gone in, but decided to go off on his own, then OP would hold the Beaver Leader responsible, even if the Beaver leader had no idea the DC was supposed to be there.
Beaver leaders are volunteers, giving their time freely,parents should appreciate this and not moan.

OP could actually volunteer to help at a meeting.
Such a shame Hatti-but quite believable. I would bet your obnoxious parent has never offered helpof any sort.

natation, sounds great.

We on the other hand have only just been allowed to take our Beavers away for more than 24 hours. EVen now, they can only camp for 1 night. And locally, our DC says they shouldnt camp, except indoors.

And by law, if we regularly have kids away from home for more than 2 hours (including travel time to and from location) we are technically child minders and therefore would need to comply with OFSTED regulations, inspections etc.

And we complain about the laws that come down from Brussels....!!

YANBU to rant about them for Akko the reasons others have stated, but YABU of everyone else to react like you are a villainous, child-endangering fiend. Let's not get silly now.

Ragwort, you are so right. There is an Akela and a Baloo near me that will be getting a little Christmas present because of your post.

yabu. I was a young leader for brownies and was not allowed them in hall on own. So I could go in, set up and chat to parents and girls but had to wait for older leader to come for insurance reasons.

Thanks Slave - perhaps your DC comes to my Cub Pack .

Certain things are being implied which I would like to rectify:

I DO respect the volunteers, I am a volunteer myself, so I know what it is like, but I would like it to be left up to me as a parent how much freedom I give my child. If he can not enter the hall because of adult-child-ratio, fine, send him out to play! My son has been brought up to be very independent, e.g. has been flying overseas ON HIS OWN since aged 5. And I cannot allow him freedom in other areas, school, for instance, has made it quite clear we will get into trouble if he only walks 50 yards on his own as it is not the norm, though perfectly legal. In the past, we had a neighbour ring SS because our son knocked on their door! None of his friends play outside but rather sit in front of their WIIs all day, this is the rule not an exeption. Cotton wool society - health and safety gone mad! Also, it is not so much about the child's safety but the adults, why else would there be this silly rule, to give an example from another area of care, that if you work with the elderly, if they fall, you should let them fall, as not to make their fall worse (!) or injure yourself. It is mad!