do you ever have a right to expect someone to work for you for free?

[DrNortherner]

Couple A & B own a flat
A's Mum lives in flat paying less than market rent
A's Mum struggling to pay less than market rent
A & B reduce rent by 50%
A's Mum has some money invested in the flat, A&B taking off the reduction each month from the balance of her investment so they will not be out of pocket
A's Mum has a foreign lodger living their for free. She feeds him and pays for his college education
A & B have decided A's foreign lodger should work for them a few hours week for free to 'earn his keep'

Today he is spending 4 hours clearing their drive. I feel hugely uncomfortable with this arrangement.

It's wrong isn't it?

Well nobody's MAKING him do the work are they?

He's not working for free - he's getting rent/food and college fees - a pretty good deal I think!

I don't know, it's a bit like payment in kind really. The lodger is living rent free but paying his/her way by doing a few hours work.

Then there's the fact that A's mum can't afford to pay less than market rent but can find the money to pay for someone else's food and education.

Sorry, not very helpful am I?

Oh yes a good deal indeed. But surely he owes A? Not A & B?

No wonder she's struggling to pay her rent if she's paying for a lodger's education!

A&B aren't actually out of pocket, are they? They are getting 50% of the rent and taking the rest off her investment. By the way, does A's mum know about this?

If they are not out of pocket, they have no right to insist on anyone doing anything.

HOWEVER. I would think that the lodger, who has a bloody good deal, could volunteer to do work around the flat to help A's mum, who is helping him so much.

No it is not wrong why should he live somewhere rent free, he has to do something for his keep good for them.

So A's mum cant pay decent rent because she is supporting a free loader? Loads wrong here.

Yes, nobody owes A&B anything.

The lodger does owe A's mum - he should help her as much as he can.

Have I read this right, he is getting free board and lodging plus he college fees paid?
Then cleaning the drive is hardly slave labour is it?

Oh I know loads are wrong here. It's a bloody can of worms.

He already does all the cooking, cleaning and ironing at A's Mums btw. And he is studying. And he has a paid job of which he send money back home. And now he is cleaning A & B's drive for free. He is far too polite and endebted to A's Mum to ever refuse a request to do anything.

If A&B have agreed that they will take money from the investment in lieu of rent then I don't understand why they should also be paid in labour. I think lodger should be doing stuff for A's mum but perhaps he is, or perhaps she doesn't want him to, that is up to her, not A&B.

"A's Mum has a foreign lodger living their for free. She feeds him and pays for his college education"

I have a feeling there must be some reason for that. Perhaps she has a very kind and charitable nature. Sudent might be sponsored by her church group. I can imagine this student might also want to contribute, even if they have little/no money.

I am guessing of course.

He sounds like he is basically an au pair with a p/t job. I would ask my mothers au pair to clean my drive

A&B are a couple living together so surely it would be hard to clear just A's drive , so if he did owe them anything, it wouldn't just be A.

Are you B OP?

I really would not ask my mother's friend/lodger to clear my drive. It would be crass/vulgar etc.

My first reaction was "Of course he should do the work" but on re-reading I see that A and B are taking the rent that A's mother can't pay them in cash from the balance of her investment in the flat,so they are getting their rent in full.So the lodger is A's mum's lodger,and nothing to do with A and B.
I do think the lodger should be doing something to pay in kind for what A's mum is doing for him,but as you say he is doing cooking,cleaning and ironing,OP he is doing that.
So,no ,A and B shouldn't be using him as free labour.

I'm copmpletely confused by this. If A&B are taking the shorfall in market rent out of the mum's investment then she IS paying market rent, surely, just not directly??

Actually, Stealth, she's paying it directly, just some of it from one account and some from her investment.

Well OK, just not as part of her rent payment. So why does she owe A&B anything at all?

The rent she is paying toA&B, even with her investment, is less than market rate.

what will happen when they've taken away all her investments/savings?

A&B should subtract the value of the lodger's work from the amount they are taking off A's mum's investment to make up the shortfall of the rent.

Otherwise they are taking the piss.

A & B were happy for her to pay less than market rate, they were happy to help her out as she was struggling for money.

Then A's mum takes in a 'lodger' for companionship more than anything. Lodger costs her money you see so then she struggles to pay even discounted rent.

So A & B discount her rent further, taking rest off her investment.

Then A & B think lodger should earn some keep by working for them.

honeyandhaycorns yes you are right.

So is the rent still partly discounted?