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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

do you ever have a right to expect someone to work for you for free?

72 replies

DrNortherner · 19/11/2011 10:33

Couple A & B own a flat
A's Mum lives in flat paying less than market rent
A's Mum struggling to pay less than market rent
A & B reduce rent by 50%
A's Mum has some money invested in the flat, A&B taking off the reduction each month from the balance of her investment so they will not be out of pocket
A's Mum has a foreign lodger living their for free. She feeds him and pays for his college education
A & B have decided A's foreign lodger should work for them a few hours week for free to 'earn his keep'

Today he is spending 4 hours clearing their drive. I feel hugely uncomfortable with this arrangement.

It's wrong isn't it?

OP posts:
HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 11:20

A&B may feel that lodger is exploiting mum, hence the wish that he should earn his keep. This is reasonable, but only if they stop taking the money from her investment in exchange for the labour that he does.

StealthPolarBear · 19/11/2011 11:21

O so if she is paying to keep a lodger (sorry, bad wording) then A&B are within their rights to put the rent up and expect her to use that money to pay the difference - whether they do or not depends on what they think about the situation - basically whether they are willing to indulge/subsidise her having this lodger.

E.g. is she elderly/frail?

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 11:22

OP, just curious, but where do you fit in?

dreamingbohemian · 19/11/2011 11:22

If the lodger is doing all that for A's mum, I don't see why he owes A&B anything. It's like they're just trying to teach him a lesson, which is a bit mean.

I don't really understand what's going on with the lodger though. Is it a charity thing?

dreamingbohemian · 19/11/2011 11:24

Oh sorry x-post

I think they should talk to the mum and find some ways of getting her more companionship than having a free lodger. That's a bit odd really.

tocha · 19/11/2011 11:26

Agree with you. Lodger doesn't owe A & B financially or morally. Morally and possibly financially he would have obligations to A's mum.

LadyBeagleEyes · 19/11/2011 11:28

This thread is far too cryptic for me.

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 11:31

Sounds to me like the arrangement works well for A's mum and the lodger - he gets his board and lodging, with a contribution towards the cost of his education. She gets companionship and someone to do her cooking, cleaning etc.

I think A and B should probably butt out.

sayithowitis · 19/11/2011 11:31

what is the nature of the Mum's investment in the property? Because it sounds to me as though she is paying rent on something she part owns!

It is no business of A and B what the mother chooses to charge her lodger. Since you say he is helping the mother by doing all the cooking, cleaning and ironing, it seems to me he is doing quite a lot already. If the mother is someone who would struggle to do those jobs for herself, potentially the subsidising of the lodger may actually save money that would otherwise be spent in paying for people to do those jobs for the mother. It also means that A and B can rest easy whilst counting their pennies, that someone else is making sure that the mother is fed, the flat clean, the clothes ironed and presumably ensuring that she is looked after if she becomes unwell.

A and B sound rather mean and grabby to me.

KatieMiddIeton · 19/11/2011 11:32

He has no financial relationship with A&B so they have no right to ask for anything.

A&B have a financial relationship with A's mum regarding the flat. The reduction below market rate was agreed before the lodger was on the scene.

As a result of A's mum's decision to live with someone else (am I the only one thinking possibly boyfriend rather than lodger??) she is coming up short on the rent so A's M and A&B agree new terms for the rent. The "lodger" is not included in this arrangement.

Is that right? If so they have no right to ask the lodger for anything. If we forget for a moment that there is family involved and look at it as a straightforward landlord/tenant agreement it becomes much simpler. Imagine if you moved in with your boyfriend who has a private rental agreement with his landlord. The landlord then starts asking you to go and do some work for him, for free. It'd quite clearly wrong.

I'm ignoring any possible debate about exploitation of foreigners and the elderly.

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 11:32

Does she pay for all of his college fees, OP? International student fees are pretty hefty so I'm guessing not. Or is he from the EU?

FFSEnid · 19/11/2011 11:37

A&B are compensated for their less than market rent by having a long term trustworthy tenant. If they want market rent they can take a gamble with someone else.

Original poster
DrNortherner · 19/11/2011 11:48

She has paid his fees for 2 years. He is not from EU. He is not a boyfriend (he has wife and kids in his home country) though A's Mum initially hoped for a romantic interlude.

I fit in as a family member somewhere along the line...........

OP posts:
Original poster
DrNortherner · 19/11/2011 11:49

A's Mum is not elderly and frail btw. Although she is of course a pensioner.

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 19/11/2011 11:50

Lodger should pay rent to A&B that would solve it.

StealthPolarBear · 19/11/2011 11:50
Shock
StealthPolarBear · 19/11/2011 11:51

right so A and B aren't seeing this lodger as companion/emergency contact/geeral help then?

Don't know. It seems a bit exploitative of them. A's mum expecting him to pull his weight is one thing. Ultimately if A&B aren't happy they have the power to change it.

oranges · 19/11/2011 12:01

I think the lodger is in the most danger here, of being exploited and accused of all sorts of thigs.

KatieMiddIeton · 19/11/2011 12:08

Tbh it sounds like A's mum and A&B need to decide exactly what the relationship regarding the rent is going to be. They make one arrangement but then A's M takes a fancy to the lodger and starts bank rolling him. This decision on her part means she can no longer honour the rent agreement. They then all, with exception of lodger, agree a new rent.

Then A&B decide unilaterally to change the terms again and include the lodger.

Tbh it sounds like the lodger is or has been stringing A's mum along or he is being more than a lodger (wife and kids overseas doesn't mean anything). He must be doing something for those fees. However, the way to tackle it is not to wear the lodger out with unpaid labour!

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 12:08

So, was she struggling to pay the market rent before or after she paid the fees? Don't know what course he is doing but it seems a lot of money to pay out if she isn't financially secure. I might be a bit worried about that if I were A. But that still doesn't mean he should work for A and B for nothing.

I'm guessing that the OP is A's sibling. Grin

AngelofTheLordiscomingDown · 19/11/2011 12:21

Has anyone else wondered if the lodger is here legally? Judging by television programmes about our Border Force, we do have foreign people here who have overstayed their 'student' visa or were not attending bogus colleges and working more than the statutorily allowed 20 hours per week.

Do A&B know that he is illegal and trying to get work done for them at no cost? The lodger is here as a student. He cooks, cleans, irons and probably carries out other tasks for A's mother. He has time to go to college and presumably do homework, research, assignments and has still more time to go to A&B's house to do things for them. Well, I'm wondering about it even if no one else is.

bruffin · 19/11/2011 12:22

So he is living free in the house where the rent is still discounted after taking into account the money is taken from the investment.
I assume the A&B don't feel they can ask A's mum for anymore money, so they are effectively subsidising him living there. In that case he should be paying something to live there or if not working it off.

2rebecca · 19/11/2011 12:23

A B and mum need to sit down and discuss this. Mum can't be that hard up if she can take on a lodger for free and pay his college fees, especially if the lodger has a paid job but chooses to send his wages to another country rather than use it to pay for his own college fees and food and board, which lets face it is what would happen if he was British.
I definitely don't think the lodger is being exploited, you wouldn't let a british bloke behave like this. He's a cock lodger who hasn't got his cock out by the sound of things. Ver bizarre.

callmemrs · 19/11/2011 12:24

A should charge rent to the lodger.
Having said that, he may feel he's getting a better deal doing a few hours working around the home than he would be if he had to go out and find a job to fit in with college hours, pay tax, and then have to pay a share of the rent from whats left over. It doesn't sound as if the lodger is being exploited- if anything he's better off by far than most students who have to pay rent, food , tuition and often have to hold down a part time job too.

However it all seems a bit messy and if I were A I would just want a straightforward rental arrangement

2rebecca · 19/11/2011 12:38

The lodger has got a paid job, but he chooses to send his wages abroad to relatives rather than pay his landlady. That's what makes the situation particularly stupid.