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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

do you ever have a right to expect someone to work for you for free?

72 replies

DrNortherner · 19/11/2011 10:33

Couple A & B own a flat
A's Mum lives in flat paying less than market rent
A's Mum struggling to pay less than market rent
A & B reduce rent by 50%
A's Mum has some money invested in the flat, A&B taking off the reduction each month from the balance of her investment so they will not be out of pocket
A's Mum has a foreign lodger living their for free. She feeds him and pays for his college education
A & B have decided A's foreign lodger should work for them a few hours week for free to 'earn his keep'

Today he is spending 4 hours clearing their drive. I feel hugely uncomfortable with this arrangement.

It's wrong isn't it?

OP posts:

callmemrs · 19/11/2011 12:51

It's taking the piss to earn and send the money home while allowing another adult to pay your tuition fees, rent, food and bills.

I am not getting the impression the lodger is the one being exploited at all!

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 12:55

We don't know all of the circumstances. The lodger is sending money from a part-time job home to support his wife and child - hardly that outrageous! Is he supposed to leave them to starve?

Maybe A's mum views this A's a charitable donation of some sort. OP, did he start the course knowing that someone else would pay for it, or was he originally planning to support himself?

Heleninahandcart · 19/11/2011 13:01

This makes me uncomfortable for a number of reasons, but mostly I think because of A&B's sense of entitlement. Not entirely comfortable with A's mother paying the lodgers fees either. Do A&B have other issues with the lodger living there, and is that driving this demand he work for them?

PigletJohn · 19/11/2011 13:06

where can I find one of these women who will give me free board and lodging and pay my costs? And I don't even have to give her a "romantic interlude?"

2rebecca · 19/11/2011 13:13

How do you know it's his wife and child?

bruffin · 19/11/2011 13:13

"Maybe A's mum views this A's a charitable donation of some sort. OP, did he start the course knowing that someone else would pay for it, or was he originally planning to support himself?"

But is it up to A&B to subsidize that donation, which is what they are effectively doing!

2rebecca · 19/11/2011 13:18

OK, missed the bit about wife and kids, just remembered the earlier post about sending money "home" and thought of a younger bloke with college fees.
I still think that if he was a British bloke trying to live in Scotland and send money to wife and kids in England few landladies would be inclined to wave his board and lodge fees and pay college tuition, especially if they couldn't afford all their rent themselves.
It sounds as though this bloke needs a charity or wealthy benefactor, not a poor pensioner.

trixymalixy · 19/11/2011 13:18

This is an absolutely ridiculous situation. A lodger shouldn't be costing A's mum money. I thought the main point of taking in a lodger is to help pay the bills, not create them!!!

dreamingbohemian · 19/11/2011 14:05

This is really bizarre.

I could maybe see an exchange of free room and board for housekeeping and company, but international student fees are astronomical. I think the lodger is really exploiting the mum if that's the case.

But if A&B don't like the situation, they should convince the mum to stop supporting him. Cleaning their driveway is pointless in terms of the broader problem.

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 14:06

But how are A and B subsidising it? They were charging A's mum a reduced rate anyway, presumably because she is their mum and also perhaps because she has some investment in the property. Yes, they have reduced the rent but they are making up the shortfall from her investment in the property, so they are no worse off.

I do agree that it's a bit for a less than wealthy pensioner to be paying out loads of money to support some random guy, but like I said, we don't know the full circumstances. And any legitimate concern that A may have about his/her mum is a separate issue from the benefits that they may or may not get from renting out their property to her.

HecateGoddessOfTheNight · 19/11/2011 14:09

Are A&B concerned that this person is taking advantage of A's Mum?

This lodger seems to be getting a really good deal here. Why is A's mum doing all this? Paying for their education etc?

My concern would be that A's Mum was herself being totally used and exploited.

But, if she's not then it is really up to her to decide what if anything she wants this lodger to do in return for her keeping a roof over their head, feeding them and paying for their education.

She's treating them like her child, isn't she?

bruffin · 19/11/2011 14:12

"Yes, they have reduced the rent but they are making up the shortfall from her investment in the property, so they are no worse off."

From OP
"The rent she is paying toA&B, even with her investment, is less than market rate."
I got them impression that even with taking the money from the investment it was lower than the market rate.

2rebecca · 19/11/2011 14:17

I agree that A's mum is treating the married lodger as her child, whilst expecting A to treat her as a child by supporting her by giving her a cheap place to live.
You'd think if A's mum had spare money she'd want to support her real child A by giving her more money in rent.

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 14:19

FWIW, I have known of elderly people "adopting" foreign adults previously. Sometimes the "adoptees" treat those elderly benefactors with far more care and respect than their own kids do. They may be motivated by financial gain, but then again, they may not.

My DH was brought up in a culture where the elderly are cherished and respected. Years ago, he formed a friendship with an elderly lady who had lost her own son to cancer. She reminds him of his mother, and he does lots of stuff for her. There is no financial benefit to him, he just does it because he wants to. She is like an extra grandparent for our daughter.

I have also known people who have spent a lot of money sponsoring talented individuals from poor backgrounds in a wish to help them achieve their potential. It isn't necessarily an exploitative arrangement.

We don't have all of the facts in this situation, so it's hard to judge what is actually going on.

OldMacEIEIO · 19/11/2011 16:45

He's getting free board and lodgings. getting a free education. and sends money home ?????

he must have a dick like a donkey

callmemrs · 19/11/2011 16:48

But the facts we do know are that she is paying out a LOT of money to this guy, while at the same time paying less than Market rent to A. That's unreasonable. If she wants to support a foreign student out of the goodness of her heart thats fine- but not at other peoples expense. Maybe she should move out and support herself independently at the going rate and then see if she has money to spare to give to others. She is being very unreasonable to A. And so what if the foreign guy is lovely and charming and possibly shows her more respect than A does? Its still taking the piss to expect to live in someone elses property without paying the full rate while spending money on other things. It sounds like maybe the lodger is exploiting the mother and the mother is exploiting A. Maybe A feels very uncomfortable about the prospect of having to ask the mother to leave, and is using other means to voice her/his unease about the set up

HoneyandHaycorns · 19/11/2011 16:52

But she has an "investment" in the property - I take this to mean that she helped them buy it. I wouldn't pay market rent for a property of which I had part ownership.

slavetofilofax · 19/11/2011 16:57

I don't see a problem with it. If the Mum wasn't supporting someone else, she may be able to pay closer to market rate for the rent, which may enable A and B to pay somone else to do any work they need doing.

And two people living in a property will cause more wear and tear than just the one.

callmemrs · 19/11/2011 16:59

The op stated as the first fact 'A and B own a flat' . The 'investment ' I took to mean she has spent money on it . It is all a very odd situation. If the flat belongs to A and B though, the bottom line is that they have a right to charge market value. The op also mentioned that they reduced the rent significantly because the mother has financial problems. What is coming across is that the mother seems to be picking and choosing what to spend her money on. Foreign student tuition costs are vast! She is clearly spending hundreds every month on his education, food,'share of bills - just think about council tax and heating for starters! A lodger should be contributing to the costs. She has sub let to some guy- perhaps because SHE thinks he's great and worth a free education and board- but that's hardly fair on the owners of the flat

ChickenLickn · 19/11/2011 17:21

but if she owns part of the property she may have been paying the MORTGAGE rather than "market rent". If she has been there awhile it will be lower than the market rent.

callmemrs · 19/11/2011 17:23

The op said A and B own the property, not that its joint ownership with A's Mother

lottiegb · 19/11/2011 18:42

That's not a lodger - person who rents a room - it's a pseudo-child, toy-boy, carer, or very priveleged (or free-loading) friend. There are schemes whereby older people let a room to younger people at low rent in exchange for a few hours domestic help and companionship each week but rent is paid.

As landlords A+B will have made a decision about whether they were willing to let their single tenant sub-let. Two people do put more of a strain on a house than one (especially if let part or fully furnished).

They may have considered the request for work on their house as related to this but would need to have made that clear. Otherwise they have no claim on the 'lodger's' time.

A's Mum is being abnormally generous though and should by normal standards of fairness be chariging some rent. I just hope she recognises how very generous she is being and that she has no obligation to be so.

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