to think children in the UK are getting an increasingly short childhood?

[Feminine]

That really?

Having been abroad for 6-ish years ...it strikes me that they do.

For example, if poster is talking about an 8 yr old ,then without fail, many posts will say things like : "Oooh 8 , thats almost a TEEN ,so yes I would let them walk home from school on their own ...prepares them for secondary"

As I am tired and have a cold ,that is the only example I can come up with right now..but I am just struck by how fast (on many subjects) kids in the UK are sometimes encouraged to "grow -up"

I am not talking about keeping them as babies ...mine are independent ,but here(US) kids are allowed to be just that, kids!

God Meditrina, that is horrible .

I think in the uk in general kids are treated in ways that people can't see are really at odds with themselves and the child/ adult dilemma.

Many kids aren't " trained" for adult hood at all- driven everywhere etc etc ( my first batch of students I taught were wiped out by the stress of getting to a new place 3 stops from the university and then a 5 min walk from the station, and the day the driver forgot to open the doors at the stop- they just freaked out! This is a journey that now my kids have made alone from 11- having practiced using trains/ buses with me or siblings beforehand).

You have to practice doing independent stuff in small steps over time.otherwise how canyou have the strategies to cope?

Few children use sharp knives- to cook / whittle wood etc. must say I got that wrong - eldest is still wary whilst youngest had a bril CM and did cooking appropriately from young. She had her own paring knife at 11 and can do the veggies better than me ( but slower!).

BUT also:

How many post here about " my 7-8 yr old doesn't play with toys so I want o get them a tv/ iPad/ laptop for Xmas is that ok?".
Now ok some are unusual kids who can't play but IMHO most actually lack adult input into how to play or do crafts and the persistence needed to do that. They are taking the instant gratification option and I'm sure that isn't good.

And I'm not even going to bring up pop lyrics/ MTV type imagery alcohol and " no alcohol " teen clubbing!

It seems to be a mixture. I grew up on in Ireland in the 80s and 90s (on a fairly rough inner city council estate before anyone gets any romantic ideas about donkeys and thatched cottages ). In some ways we were more mature. For example we played away from home for hours without anyone worrying about where we were. In other ways we matured later. Most of us didn't have sex until we were about 18 and didn't really kiss etc till we were 15ish. We certainly weren't worrying about our weight and looks before we hit our teens. I quite liked that balance and am sorry my DCs won't have it. Contemporary British society just isn't very good at balance.

In Switzerland kids are encouraged to be independant, healthy and practical at an early age but not formally educated until 7.

So kindergarten is until 7 and obligatory from 4. Kids don't undertake reading and writing, but learn other skills which prepare them for the start of school, and life in general. They build fires in the forest, go on mountain hikes, take trams around the city usually with one teacher and up to 18 kids.

It is frowned upon to walk your 4 yr old to kindy. There is one 500-1000m in every village and town and they are encouraged (and taught by the police) to do this alone or in groups of friends.

Most Swiss kids play out all weekend and evening.

School hours are 8-12am three days a week and for two days they return at 2-4pm. They do have homework on the other days, however they also have more time spent on sports and art than I remember my ds doing in the UK.

So three years later to school, half the time spent on sports, 24 hours of education a week total - and are they any less educationally competent than ours? Not really. However all the practical things have fallen into place, dressing, toilet, basic cooking, sharing, helping, exercise, safety etc

Overall the late education keeps kids young, as does the encouragement to play outside, engage in natural activities. You don't see so many Ben 10, Hannah Montanah, Transformer logo'd kids as I remember in the UK. They just don't seem to live indoors or be that dictated by TV etc.

I had a meeting with a sales manager from Mattel once, and she told me that UK girls have generally grown out of Barbie by the age of 7 (starting at 4) whereas this was the opening age for Barbie in Germany. I didn't have kids at the time but it made me feel a bit sad. i had enjoyed Sindy until 11 yrs old, and I wasby no means babyish or mollycoddled.

It is the US children's TV programmes that we don't watch in this house. Not banned as DD is not curious about them. I find Witches of Waverley Place and all the Disney programmes to be full of dating and shopping in malls. Just brainless and vacuous. Even the pre-teens in these shows seem to be like that.
Luckily my DD is turning out to be horsey. That is an activity that children/teenagers can enjoy. Plus the clothes do not tend to be skimpy and high heels are to be avoided at all costs!

Some excellent points made ...Thank you.

binfull your barbie point is something similar to what I was attempting to explain yesterday actually!

Its just the little things.

I suppose it depends what age of children you are talking about. The US certainly has a very high teen pregnancy rate, and getting pregnant is one of way of growing up faster.

Children and teenagers have to grow up to fit into the adult world they're not going to grow up to fit into some kind of world that does not exist. Many of the things that people are saying that kids do in the UK fit in with the adult life they grow up into in the UK. Doing lots of homework and extra learning clubs out of school hours - UK adults have the longest working hours of any Western European country. Children and teens wearing sexualised clothing - UK women often have more sexualised clothing than other countries and pornography usage among adults is much higher here than in other European countries. Delaying responsible behaviour - most adults now reach independent milestones later like having children, having their own house, settling in a particular career, having the independence to financially, practically or emotionally support their elderly parents.

It seems to me that there is a lot of pressure being put on parents to create some kind of childhood that is at odds with what society is actually we like. If we want childhood to change, then adult society has to change. It is a weird twist of liberal though that adults must have freedom and not be challenged on what they do, but at the same time parents and children are constantly told that their kids are responsible for where society is going. Adult society as a whole is responsible for where society is going.

I agree with worra

The pornography one is news to me However there is also a brothel in every town in Switzerland. My local one is next to the supermarket and 3 stories high!

There are also a heck if a lot of swingers clubs here. So I don't think the Swiss are any less "sexualised".

It's not all yogurt and yodelling.

However they are slavish about family time, lunch and working hours, and there are a lot of SAHM. The joke here is that the businesses in Switzerland take on UK employees to work the hours they aren't prepared to do!

I disagree.

Childhood always changes from generation to generation. I don't think it changes in a straight line either. Its also a bit like beauty in that it is often indeterminable what people actually mean by 'childhood.' For some people they mean innocence - a sort of social and sexual innocence. For others its about geographical freedom and for some its about play and fantasy. Normally a mixture of all these things.

When I was growing up, yes we had lots more geographical freedom. But also, it was very common to be a latchkey kid. You were by yourselves a great deal. In fact, often your back door was left open all day. However, It was also much more racist, sexist and rigid emotionally and socially. I thank god my children aren't growing up in that society and think children have a far greater scope to be themselves nowadays.

Its really up to a parent how far they want to push their children into adulthood. We love childish things in our house, playing, dreaming, roaming etc.

That said, from the off, there seem to be kids who are more 'grown up' than others. I find it very hard to generalise.

Here, they are expected to be able to do a lot more when starting school, they are expected to walk home alone/go to the park etc...

They just do it like kids IYSWIM?- in non-fashionable play clothes!

I am thinking that a lot of what I am comparing the UK children with, is really only apparent to those who have/ or are living abroad.

My question does not make a lot of sense (in some ways).

I participate a lot on an American message board, some of the problems teen parents are worried about with their children; would be taken less seriously in the UK (comparing it to the type of responses given here on MN)

I'm realizing it is futile to compare, as families are so different I guess.

i think childhood is longer than it ever has been. work starts later in life - due to legislation - marriage & kids later, all the real grown up things happen older.

at 9 my mum worked in the family business, did fairly heavy chores around the house and this was not untypical of the time. i just played mostly, as do my kids :)

I think it depends on whether you live in a small town or village or a big city. I live in small town Scotland, my kids childhood is not that different from my own. I do think that not going to high school until at least 11 and a half (I was 12 and a half as one of the oldest in year) as is the system up here helps a lot.

We have given up our telly (six months now!) and never had sky etc. My boys are not exposed to the horror of X-factor etc. and still play with toys. Admittedly DS1 is mostly on his X-box.

If you live in a small town and Scouts and sports clubs and riding your bike are all that's on offer kids will do them.

I have friends who live in cities and their teens have been more "teenage" for longer

I agree wigglybreezer. Our experiences in NYC were very similar to London, and the children's lives seemed fairly similar too. My nieces who live in Melbourne seem to have pretty similar lives too. Now we live in a very outdoor orientated place (small town with very easy access to the countryside) and the leisure options are very different. People are much more relaxed and generally more trusting because they know each other (not necessarily directly but it amazing how few degrees of separation there are) and it makes a big difference to how they interact with children (being both more likely to help and to tell them off when needed).

However even though I think my children are having a better childhood they really didn't seem noticeably different to their more citified cousins.