to think children in the UK are getting an increasingly short childhood?

[Feminine]

That really?

Having been abroad for 6-ish years ...it strikes me that they do.

For example, if poster is talking about an 8 yr old ,then without fail, many posts will say things like : "Oooh 8 , thats almost a TEEN ,so yes I would let them walk home from school on their own ...prepares them for secondary"

As I am tired and have a cold ,that is the only example I can come up with right now..but I am just struck by how fast (on many subjects) kids in the UK are sometimes encouraged to "grow -up"

I am not talking about keeping them as babies ...mine are independent ,but here(US) kids are allowed to be just that, kids!

No, I agree with worraliberty.

Our children miss out on a real childhood if they can't do the things that encourage independence.

As a child I was allowed to walk to the park or swimming pool by myself, or with a friend or sibling. We just knew we had to be home by a certain time. This encouraged responsibility and independence. It enabled us to learn to cross roads safely, before we were teens.

Teens are the age group most likely to be run over when crossing the road. Is this because, up to then, they have been mummied so much that they never learnt how to do this properly?

Once, at about 8 and 9 I was walking with my sister and a friend when a man pulled up and asked us if we wanted a lift. We knew not to get in the car, and knew to go and find an adult we could trust to ensure we were safe. We got ourselves out of the situation.

What is childhood for, if not learning the skills we will need to be an adult? Not just at school, or at clubs, but out in the real world, and of course by imaginative role play. How can our children have imaginative role play if every minute is scheduled into some activity or other?

Let's stop mollycoddling our children, and let them grow up!

I would say the opposite.
I agree that they are too pressurised too early to perform at school and they keep getting tested to see how they are going and they don't have freedom. My childhood seemed to stretch out forever but you had a wonderful 6 week summer holiday without anyone maoning that it was too long. I could get on my bike and disappear-just coming back for meals.

HOWEVER today they are babified and not allowed to grow up.

Someone has already said about managing the toilet at 5 yrs-of course they should-it was never questioned when I started school-DCs managed.

There has been a recent thread where DCs are so protected they can't take part in family life and you can never have a toddler in the kitchen unless they are strapped in, apparently you can't watch them and cook. You can't have a 4yr old in a different part of the house.

A 5 yr old can't have tea with a school friend because you don't know the parent (i.e. for 4 yrs, seen the CRB and checked the kitchen)

You can't let a 6 yr old go in the gents toilet or an 8yr old boy get changed in the mens changing room. They can't go to the shop.

You can't leave an 8yr old at home for 5 mins because the mad axe murderer will strike or they will set fire to the house.

You can't leave a 16 yr old at home alone at night (despite the fact they are allowed to get married). It is perfectly acceptable to open an 18yr olds post and recently we had the ultimate -a 22 yr old is too young to be a teacher!!!

To have a proper childhood they need to learn responsibility and risk assessment and freedom. They have lost childhood and it is over protective parents who have taken it away.

In lots of countries eight year olds walk to school on their own (if they are lucky enough) I believe that many children in swizaland walk to school on their own at eight.

Some unfortunate eight year olds work in dangerous sweat factories or other horrible jobs to just stay alive in the third world.

In the UK, I think that we expect far too much of our pre schoolers and start school too early. However our teens have a far longer childhood by going to uni and being supported by their parents for a lot longer. We also prolong our childhood by choosing to have our families later.

My American niece is the most precocious, spoilt, materialistic child I have ever met

I think a good example is the current obsession with formal education from a ridiculously early age. Nurseries are expected to assess and report on the "academic" progress of children. There was a recent thread from someone who had spent hundreds on uniform for a private pre-school. What's wrong with pre school kids learning about life by rolling around in mud and getting covered in glitter glue, rather than practicing jolly phonics. A friend of mine shows flash-cards of letters to her 2 year old! It's crazy.

My youngest is just a few weeks sky of being 14 and there is nothing childish left about him.
He is not interested in toys or playing games or kids tv.
If he watches tv then he likes programs Raising Hope, The Middle or A league of their own. He is into clothes and music and plays a lot of sport. Girls are no longer to be avoided but are now part of his wider circle of friends and he has a girlfriend. His childhood is pretty much over and he is now somewhere between a teen and young adult. I say young adult as he is making choices which will affect his long term furture as he has already made his option choices at school.

cantspel my 13 year old is like that (bar the girls)

I haven't raised my children in a typical way for these parts , I'm still a Brit...but I can't say things haven't rubbed off on me.

Maybe its to do with when they start school perhaps?

Well, I sometimes compare my childhood to that of my DCs.

I got much less homework than they do.
I could go out after school with mates (didn''t have a phone, just a rough idea of when to come home)
I used to walk by the canal ,alone-imagine an 8 yo doing that now!
I never had any doubt I would get a job of some description.And the option of going to college/uni was there without financial worries.

There were gangs but no knives or guns.
You didn't get beaten up for 'disrespecting' someone
Only had to worry about pregnancy ,but HIV/AIDS was in the headlines when I was maybe 19 yo
No cyber bullying (though there was physical bullying and the schools wouldn't have taken it seriously)

So yes, I think children have lost their childhood.

Agree with the majority; personal freedom = increasingly nil whilst pressure to perform well most the time and not just lark about is ridiculously high.

See Freerange kids, OP.

Children are supposed to lark about, n'est-ce pas?

Meanwhile they are lamblasted for all being hoody criminals in waiting, or told they're working their arses off to get qualifications that are worth nothing. Sucky time to be a teenager.

When I used the "walking home from school' example what I should have specified, was that is wasn't to do with the 'walking home'. It was more the point that many times I have seen 8 compared to being almost a teen.

Here, that wouldn't/ just doesn't happen.:)

The girlfriend thing is quite sweet and innocent. Lots of hand holding snd hugging and the odd bit of kissing but in his circle of friends it is not cool to be doing anything more or to change girlfriends every few weeks.
It is pretty much a sort of trial run for a more adult commited relationship

I do think that the fact that children start school so early means we expect more from them. i know when mine started at 4 they was expected to be able to toilet themselves properly, including wiping, deal with their luchboxes, do up coats, put on shoes ect. None of these were a bad thing and i would rather see a child doing their best to be independant than a child who still cant do up a pair of shoes at 5 for example.

feminine I have never noticed that myself. I have been British all my life but never get confused between 8 and 13.

8 is not almost a teen, that's a mathematical fact, 13-5=8 last time I looked.

So 8 is as near 3 as a teen...

I have noticed it through doing my Christmas shopping this year. My dd is 10 and there seem to be very few "toys" marketed towards her. The gifts in her age range seem to be all about beauty, clothes, hair, make up etc. I really wish there were more, slightly older, more complex toys aimed at girls. I know there are a few things but the majority is all about appearance.

original I know.

But I have seen that example many times.

In my 8 year olds classroom, there are still cute bears and smiling pumpkins beaming down at them-I doubt I would see the same thing in yr4 in the UK.

another example is clothing...its really easy to buy cute dresses for girls up to 12 here (don't know if they would wear them ) but they are available.

Little girls (up to 10) still wear big colorful bows to school... they still feel able and there is no mocking!

I look at the facebook pages of my siblings (17 & 15 in UK) and I look at my teen relatives here (same age range) and the difference is staggering.

From adult language to 'adult' posing back home.

American teens (in my mind) seem fine with just being that in -between stage.

But fashion seems to be somewhat behind in the states anyway so maybe that is why you still have dresses with bows for 10 year olds.

The US doesn't seem to have such a big teen culture as we do.

cantspel no, you can get all the latest here...its not behind.

Its just that dresses are still available in regular shops.

I'm returning to the UK...I will have to go shopping to see what I can find for my 3 year old soon.

The title of this thread put two thoughts into my mind:

a) the HH song about children working in factories in Victorian Britain, and the fact that children in some parts of the world are still in sweatshops, and

b) the heart-rending sponsor a child adverts, which show the hideous circumstances that some children are in - walking miles for water, subsistence farming, sold into prostitution.

Children in the UK have much, much better prospects of having a childhood than so many others probably cannot even dream of.

Feminine i am going by what my sister says and she has been in the states for 15 years but still waits to do her clothes shopping in the uk as she says unless you want jeans and casuals the clothes are granny wear.

meditrina do you think it was a little dramatic then? :)

I agree with your point.

But comparing it to what is around me right now (US) I still think they do a bit

been a longtime since i have looked at 3 year olds clothes. My teen boys are all now in chinos and skinney jeans matched with fred perry's and vans or high tops.

cantspel maybe its because I have embraced the cowgirl look?

No, I don't think it was too dramatic; it just had a different resonance to me.

There's a difference (to me, at least) between the shades (and perhaps shortcomings) of first world privilege, and the situation of those who really have little or no childhood.