to think this woman shouldn't be volunteering with this level of prejudice?

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

I am doing a preparation course to become a HomeStart volunteer (for anyone who doesn't know, that will entail visiting families with young children in their own homes to befriend them and offer support).

The course is all women over 50 (except for me), many of whom (but not all) are quite old-fashioned in their attitudes but generally open to discussion and not prejudiced.

On the first week, one of the women, when we were discussing reasons why families break up, said she thought it was 'very selfish of women to take children away from their father' and that she thought that relationship counselling should be compulsory, even if the relatonship was violent/abusive.

A few sessions later she said, during a discussion on abortion, that the feelings of the father should be taken into account and that he should be able to prevent the woman having an abortion and raise the child himself if he wanted to, as it was selfish of women to deprive men of the chance of fatherhood.

Then, this week, she said that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt because (and this is verbatim, I am not exaggerating here) 'there was a risk the child could be interefered with'

I (politely) disagreed with all the above statements btw. I cannot quite believe the course supervisors are going to let her loose on vulnerable families though... Would you say anything?

Whose child did you think I thought it was?

How does that answer my point that men cannot be pregnant?

The 'simple' aspect here is biology, which you really do not seem to understand.

And when science advances to the point where HE carries, labours and gives birth to that child, he can decide whether to continue the pregnancy or not. While it's still women doing that, it is the woman's decision. Her body, her choice.

Men had a say in women's bodies once upon a time Spoc and thankfully thoe days are now over...we don't need twats like you asking for those days to return.

Why don't you go to some site that's not full of women? Then you can relax more...maybe find some men to talk to who hold similar views? Or are you here just to wind people up?

I know you've been here a long time but I don't give a shit...you're a twat comig out with things like that.

I am , she is going to work with very vulnerable families, I would mention this to your supervisor. It could affect the way she works with families.

i understand this is a contentious issue and i will say the reason is becasue you are women and do not like the idea that a man should habve some control over have a child or not.

I am not saying the woman should carry the child but there should be something in place when abborting for both partners to go together and discuss the situation full before abortion is given.

I had a blazing row frank discussion with a male nurse who held the same opinion as MrSpoc the other day. I was frightened to think that he's in a caring profession.

Piglet she would NOT be palced with a very vulnerable family.

She might be, as Pied said, let go, or she might be taken in for more work on her attitudes.

She might fundraise.

She will not be allowed to cause harm or distress to a family.

We don't like the idea that men should have control over women's bodies? No shit Sherlock. Actually most reasonable human beings have that view, it's not just a Wimmin thing.

Surely the point is that it's not these volunteers place to judge and it needs to be made clear and the supervisors must be sure that a volunteer is not going to go to a family to 'help' and end up spouting all these opinions that may very well make someone who is needing support feel totally shit.

So I still think you need to say something, just to clarify.

MumblingAndBloodyRagDoll - how dull do you sound. I come here cause its for both sexes about parenting. This topic does come under parenting.
You must be very dull just to speak and associate with people who will just agree to your way of thinking.

I don't have any problem with men having a say over having a child, I've already said that.

It's just that that choice comes when the man decides either to use contraception, or to have sex with a woman who wants a baby too.

What is the problem here?

There is a really good reason, btw, why there should not be something in place where both partners have to discuss abortion. And that reason is that it's the woman's choice, not the man's. You can always choose, as a woman, to bring your partner - but it should not be forced.

Spoc not at all....I just don't like sexist wankers.

On a number of courses of this type, even where there is no official pass or fail, it is common for those who are unsuited to the task to be counselled out.

I would echo the earlier poster who said that you need to pay more attention to any modules on confidentiality.

hellsbells76 - are you saying the male nurse should not be doing his job because he holds the view he should also have a choice? because of his view you belive he is incapable of being compasionate or undertake his job competantly~?

MumblingAndBloodyRagDoll - why is my remark sexist?

And what if continuing with a pregnancy would be detrimental to the mother's health? Should she then be FORCED to continue with the pregnancy because the father wants her to? Even if it would be very physically dangerous for her? Or if it would badly affect her mental health? No WAY.

You could end up with a situation where a man rapes a woman (giving her no chance to sort contraception), gets her pregnant, and then INSISTS she doesn't abort. And that is why giving father's a say just wouldn't work. Controlling relationships etc.

And Spoc how do you imagine your idea of joint coucelling works in situations where there has been abuse?

im glad LRDtheFeministDragon puts her points across calmy and in a debatable fashion. i take your points on board and as i have said from the start, i think men should have a choice but not to the point of the women carrying the baby. Just that there should be more help at this point.

I slightly disagree with the way you put that hunty, though I agree with you that the scenario you describe can and does happen.

To me, the point isn't the people who are already on the wrong side of the law (like a rapist or an abuser). It's that a perfectly nice, decent bloke simply cannot in any meaningful way 'choose' to continue a pregnancy. He doesn't have a womb. It's not a 'choice' for him, it is an opinion.

MumblingAndBloodyRagDoll - as i said before, in abuse cases they should not have any choice. Yes its a fine line i know.

Spoc Your remark is sexist...your opinion is sexist and YOU are sexist.

You have no rights over any womans body....if you think that unfair then you are sexist of course.

I think it's fine for a man to decide if a woman should have an abortion or not. Afterall as she is his property it is his right to choose how she is used.

Oh, hang on...

I don't think nursing is a particularly suitable profession for someone who believes women don't deserve autonomy over their bodies, no. I don't think misogynists should have a position of power over vulnerable women.

Now you are backtracking Spoc having some input or joining in councelling is not having a choice is it?

LRDtheFeministDragon - thats a very good way of putting it.