...or do I have a point about this caret at nursery?

[itspeanutbutterjellytime]

God, I don't know if I'm making this out to be a huge deal... DH agrees with me, but then I guess he would!

Basically, our DS got sent home from nursery this morning having had 2 runny poos. I went straight to pick him up, and it's not his usual carer with him, but another lady; his key worker is away doing charity work atm you see. My DS was sat on the floor in the corner away from all the other children, subdued and not playing with anything. As soon as I came in, I walked over and picked him up and he clung to me. He's not usually very affectionate at all. The carer said she'd just changed him again and water was literally pouring out of his bottom. Right, said I. I'll take him to the doctors and see what's going on. She said fine, just bring him back Monday. I tried to ask her more detail about the nappies, what time etc etc. She couldn't answer me, and called the manager in.

Now this lady happens to be short-staff cover, and every time she has covered in the babies room; my son gets sent home with runny poos. The same thing happened last month, it was a Thursday then too. He came home, and almost as if to prove them wrong he curled down a massive solid poo.

I find her quite odd; if I ask questions about what he's had, when it happened, how many times (nothing out of the ordinary and I always remain calm and polite) just so I can give the doctor some background, she gets huffy and runs off to get the manager. The thing is, this has happened about 3 or 4 times now. He only gets sent home in her care. He gets home, is bouncy and giggly; we take him to the doctors who look at me as if I'm nuts.

He's drinking lots of water, has a good appetite, no temperature... He is teething but he doesn't get cranky from it.

I just feel a bit off about it. When she's there, DS is always subdued and quiet and playing on his own. Normally, he's giggling with the other kids and crawling about... Something isn't sitting right. Does she not like him or something? Or am I imagining this?

Btw, I'm not the type to send an ill baby to nursery! I am the first to keep him off to be safe, if anything I am a bit pfb with it all!

Do I just take it on the chin every time he gets sent home by her (once a month, always on a Thursday, always the same reason) and accept its her word against mine? Or do I speak with management about it? I'm also a bit concerned about his behaviour around her.

COme on there must be a disease with a latin name that translates as "poo like running water" :o

Ah yes, the well known malady of Dystentarius Imaginarium. It can be hard to shake off.

but patients appear completely normal in front of family members.

I have a 13yo s/n "nappy" wearing child who normally does loose poos; so I am a bit of an expert! (At least where he is concerned).

peanut ask at your GPs for some stool sample bottles and then ask nursery to save you a sample in the bottle next time, as your GP has requested one for testing . Also ask them to keep a record for you of every dirty nappy whether runny or not. Tell them this is all for the GP (even if it isn't).

Round here the bottles are see through (delightful) so this "carer" won't be able to get away with saying it is watery if it isn't.

OP, I would say to the manager that you are very concerned that your DS is sent home on the same day every month that particular staff member is looking after him. On those occasions you note that they are not adhereing to the ratios and have your suspicions that this issue is to do with getting their ratios down to the legal limit as DS is not displaying any signs of being ill or having loose poos. Say that if a sample of nappy is not provided and staff member does not answer questions about the care of your DS you will have no option but to ask Ofsted to investigate.

Sounds a harsh approach but if they really are not adhereing to the correct staffing ratios then I am sure other parents would be concerned as well that the nursery is not providing the service they are being paid for.

this mentions green and very runny poo being a sign of an allergy.

I would say make them save your DS's nappies for the sample.
and make sure you put his name in them, so that you know that it's his nappy and not someone else's.

Oh nickel is it really? I hadn't heard it before, but my LO (same age group as OP's) has been having these.

might be. :(
there's a more medical website here

Does this carer (and only this care - hence it's always her who send him home) feed the babies something that doesn't agree with you ds?

It seems unlikely. I just like to cover all bases [Nancy Drew emoticon]

Although I think that's kind of what Nikel is saying too (sorry to repeat - am dipping in and out - meant to be working)

Good grief I sound like someone doing a dreadful and racist impersonation of a furriner. I'll try again:

Does this carer (and only this carer - hence it's always her who sends him home) feed the babies something that doesn't agree with your ds?

Actually, that link is kind of reassuring, thanks nickel. Anyway, I'm having it looked in to, hence my expertise on sample pots and the like. And yes, starfish, they are indeed transparent around here too...

If you come in to pick up your son, and you see staff ratio's are not correct that is in itself a ground to complain.

My advice is this:

Write to the nursery and confirm the time and dates you came in to pick up your boy, and staff ratio's were wrong. Highlight this is as a separate issue and don't make the link with the pick up (yet), as you can't prove it.

Also confirm the dates when you picked him up and had the doctor write a note to say he's fine. It's not your word against theirs, you have a GP note to say your son was not ill which I assume will have been written within hours of you picking him up. This happening 3-4 times is a pattern forming and it's logical you would address this.

Then state your concern that your son is being sent home so often without actually being ill and that you would like their support in finding out how this can be addressed. Can they check diets, write down times when nappies are changed, keep dirty nappies so you can show the doctor etc. Make it their problem and get them working on a solution with you. Possibly it'll come out that this lady sends him home to reduce staff ratio's, possibly it's an entirely different reason none of us can think of right now, but either way, you'll not be at ease until you know.

That's what I would do anyway: approach the nursery with the facts and let them draw the conclusion.

Sample bottles are always transparent as part of the biochemical work up is the appearance. In any case, if there's no further episodes of this then it's very suspicious.

belle - we used to be given opaque ones a while ago which were a bit more discreet when handing over a container of poo!!

They are clear here and have a blue lid with a tiny blue spoon.

Oh goodness thank you SO much everybody, I've got a note from our lovely family doctor who was only to happy to say that our ds was presented to him this afternoon as healthy and happy. I rang the nursery to say he will be in tomorrow, accompanied with aforementioned note.

I asked for a meeting with the stand in manager, but she's off until Monday (?!) so I will hold my tongue. I will certainly be meeting with the actual manager when she gets back at the end of this month.

If you are having to leave work, can you check back through your emails/diary/ask your boss (or ask Dr's receptionist to check when you've had appointments?) to find out how many Thursdays this has been going on for?

I'd type up a list of the dates you can find out its happened (or write down the last 3 if you can't find out anymore) and take it into the nursery, who should also have records of when and why he's been sent home sick.

Then say exactly what you're saying here - that you've noticed a pattern that once a month he is sent home with diarhhoea and that each time you've taken him to the doctor he's been fine. Then sit back and see what they say. It may well be they fall over themselves apologising, if not then ask them what can be done about it - different careworker for that day? no cheerios? save nappy for you to see?

You could also have a quiet word with the other staff member who was in the room and see if she will privately tell you whether your son had diarhhoea or not.

I'd agree you need to deal with it. Apart from anything else, if they are over their ratios then you should report this to Ofsted as its a serious breach of regulations and could impact on all the children's care.

A quick check of your DS's fontanelle (soft spot on his head) will soon tell you if he is dehydrated from 'profuse diarrhoea'.

If it is not sunken in, then he is adequately hydrated even if this lady has been reporting watery diarrhoea. A dehydrated child will also be dark and 'hollow' around the eyes, possibly have less than sweet breath and strong, dark concentrated urine (if any).
yes, kids deteriorate fast. BUT I think you need to have more faith in your maternal instincts and be a little more assertive with this nursery. My impression is that you instinctively feel your son is well but do not want to seem a less than attentive Mother, so you address what this woman is saying.

Something stinks here....and it isn't your dear Son's little tush lol.
Good luck.

Thank you nurse you're right, I do need to be more assertive I think.

I feel like I'm effectively being called a liar by the nursery when I come to see to him and say 'he's not ill'. I have to take him to the doctor and get a note before I can bring him back. I know I'm not a doctor, but anyone with eyes in their head would see my ds isn't ill, and hasn't been on these occasions.

Speak to the manager, he can not get a runny tummy "every time" he is with her the odds against that are massive

Sounds like you have made some good decisions. Not impulsive ones either. I think involving your Doc is a good thing as you have started the process of gaining objective medical evidence. May prove to be important in future events should your gut feeling tell you this carer is suspect.

Nature gave us instinct for a good reason.
Good luck.

I've emailed a couple of other mums in the baby room just to see if they've had any issues with kids being sent home lately. All innocently worded, but just to sniff about and see if anyone else is having the same issue...

Good idea OP. If they have that will make things very clear indeed.