...or do I have a point about this caret at nursery?

[itspeanutbutterjellytime]

God, I don't know if I'm making this out to be a huge deal... DH agrees with me, but then I guess he would!

Basically, our DS got sent home from nursery this morning having had 2 runny poos. I went straight to pick him up, and it's not his usual carer with him, but another lady; his key worker is away doing charity work atm you see. My DS was sat on the floor in the corner away from all the other children, subdued and not playing with anything. As soon as I came in, I walked over and picked him up and he clung to me. He's not usually very affectionate at all. The carer said she'd just changed him again and water was literally pouring out of his bottom. Right, said I. I'll take him to the doctors and see what's going on. She said fine, just bring him back Monday. I tried to ask her more detail about the nappies, what time etc etc. She couldn't answer me, and called the manager in.

Now this lady happens to be short-staff cover, and every time she has covered in the babies room; my son gets sent home with runny poos. The same thing happened last month, it was a Thursday then too. He came home, and almost as if to prove them wrong he curled down a massive solid poo.

I find her quite odd; if I ask questions about what he's had, when it happened, how many times (nothing out of the ordinary and I always remain calm and polite) just so I can give the doctor some background, she gets huffy and runs off to get the manager. The thing is, this has happened about 3 or 4 times now. He only gets sent home in her care. He gets home, is bouncy and giggly; we take him to the doctors who look at me as if I'm nuts.

He's drinking lots of water, has a good appetite, no temperature... He is teething but he doesn't get cranky from it.

I just feel a bit off about it. When she's there, DS is always subdued and quiet and playing on his own. Normally, he's giggling with the other kids and crawling about... Something isn't sitting right. Does she not like him or something? Or am I imagining this?

Btw, I'm not the type to send an ill baby to nursery! I am the first to keep him off to be safe, if anything I am a bit pfb with it all!

Do I just take it on the chin every time he gets sent home by her (once a month, always on a Thursday, always the same reason) and accept its her word against mine? Or do I speak with management about it? I'm also a bit concerned about his behaviour around her.

If they were doing this because of understaffing; surely choose a different child to send home each time rather than the same one?!

I agree that this is pretty odd. I don't think you go from a terrible bout of runny poo to solid straight away immediately after. Nope. No way. Especially as that is the only symptom (ie: no nappy rash or anything else that might indicate a problem). So then the question is whether or not she is just chancing her arm to reduce her own workload, or whether the nursery is encouraging it in order to ensure they can honour the ratio thing. BTW - is the 3-1 thing just what they aspire to as part of their philosophy, or is it legal? I am not in the UK, but here it is much higher (7-1 is the legal max).

I think that either way, letting them know that you see a pattern and are watching for it, will be a good way of nipping it in the bud, if it is anything other than genuine (which it just about conceivably still could be I suppose). A few comments about it being a bit mysterious and being keen to get samples for analysis next time, so that you can get to the bottom of the isolated, but recurring, attacks, might well put an end to it I'd say.

I'm desparate to chat to the regular manager, as I say she is away on a charity thing atm.

That would be something to ask the management - why is it just your ds who keeps getting sent home?

I think it would also be reasonable to ask them directly about staffing levels too - say you have noticed they are sometimes not within a 1:3 ratio.

rita he's not a troublesome child; he's not a big eater (not fussy, just doesn't eat pots of it the way some of them do) but he sleeps well and is generally a good boy for them. I always get this report back, and if I drop in anytime he is always calm and enjoying an activity of some kind.

Is it a certain time of the day? When they have a staff change?

My nursery has rang me once with this problem....and that was because they wanted me to bring a change of trousers. Did they have to change him. Did you get clothes covered in poo?

Also how old is your child?

1:3 is the legal minimum staffing levels for children under 2. It has to be maintained at all times unless it's a worker leaving the room momentarily to go to the loo or change a nappy.

something I think I will go down that route this time (perhaps a bit sharper than that, might drop in the dysentry thing stealth put in), I'll go in to the manager tomorrow and say something. Definitely. Can anyone give me a kind of script? My tummy goes to jelly in these kinds of situations!

My DS is 13 months old.

Ok, it sounds like a daft system all round then. How can the dr prove that he hasn't got a d&v bug and could infect others (thats the point of the 48hr rule isnt it?) Many children appear cheerful and dont have a temperature if they have the runs and the dr won't be checking nappies.

I realise in your ds' case that he isnt actually ill.....unless he could have something like giardia which can be runny diahorrea then hard poos/constipation. But I expect that you would have noticed that he was that poorly.

Could you chat to other parents and see if there are any other cases of similar happening. You need to chat to the nursery, let them know you are suspicious.

Well that is an obvious motivation then. Though not a good way of dealing with it and that is probably related to the absence of the regular manager, who might well be appalled.

Poo on the clothes is a good point. DD has diarrhea at times and there is always a bit of leakage around the edges. Seems like I spend my time soaping out her vests and that when it happens.

As to why your DS, who knows? I'm sure he's lovely, but maybe for some reason, she finds him a bother. Or more likely is that you are quick to react and come and get him, so you are a dependable way of reducing the numbers.

something naturally he may well be a right pain in the arse for her, I don't know! I'm not suggesting for one second that my DS is angelic

Just need something good to say now. Just like 'I'm keeping an eye on this, I know what's going on'. If keeps happening, I will of course be taking him out! Can anyone help me with something intelligent to say?

IME a baby sent home with an episode of diarrhoea will either have more diarrhoa at home, gradually soliding up, or will not poo at all for a day or so (having evacuated all the waste in their system). To do a solid poo at home the same day as apparently having water rushing out seems infeasible. Very suss.

Well, peanut I am not good at confrontation either (I also turn to jelly) so a concerned approach is probably the way I would go:

"I've been meaning to say that we're a bit worried about the recurring diarrhea attacks my DS has been having over the past few months - they sound most severe (water gushing out etc), but they only happen here, never at home, and the doctor can't find a reason, so we're a bit stumped. We think a stool sample would be a good next step and we'd be happy to leave a sterile sample pot here, so that a small sample can be saved for analysis next time and we can find out what's causing it."

They sell those pots in the pharmacy, so leave them one. Next time you're summoned, there'd better be a corroborating sample! It's easy to get it analysed too, so that on the off chance that this is actually happening, it's easy to look into it at least.

I'd wait to see if he has another loose poop, I wouldn't take him to the GP yet. He'd be unwell if he had a runny nappy like she's describing, he may be lethargic and there would be more then one nappy like this. It sounds like too much of a coincidence to me. Are you a SAHM? It would be less of a hassel for you to collect him then if they were to pull someone out of work (not meaning to say SAHMs have less to do).

I'd ask them to put the nappy in a bag next time as the GP has asked for a sample.

Do you provide the nappies for DS or do nursery? I have to provide DD with a bag of nappies, wipes etc each day so I'd know if they'd changed her twice in a few hours...I always top the bag up to 4 nappies on the mornings she's in creche.

Also, is DS still bf...when DS was small one of his creche workers was always telling me his poo was runny. Turns out she'd not changed a bf babies nappy before, they are very different in consistency from ff.

The next time this happens and this woman gets the manager, you could say to her "OK, you can get the manager, but I'm going to be asking YOU the questions, not the manager. You're the carer looking after my DS, so you can answer my quesitons" and see what her reaction is.

Presumably it's you becuase they know your boss won't sack you and lose them a child whose Mum pays the bills?

I have to say i;d be starting with a meeting with eprson in charge and saying that should my child be sent home on a Thursday in thsi manner again then I won't be paying.

Any way you can ask other parents if it has happened to them?

sorry, "questions"

Check the dysentry thing!! I would want to check my facts as some of it is slightly made up. Point I'm making is if she is saying he has violent diarrhoea (rather than just the usually runny bums kids get) then does that indicate some unusual bug or disease that would need to be managed at a higher level than just in the nursery itself

Dysentry is very, very nasty. There would be far more then one episode of runny poo, it would be constant and would cause severe dehydration (I trained as a children's nurse and have studied a little Environmental health at MSc level). It's also highly contagious so they would have to call in the health protection agency.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/dysentery/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Well yes, dysentery might be pushing it just a little then . But really, she does make it sound terribly severe - bad enough to merit a bit more of an investigation.

But what would the symptoms be? I'm not suggesting it is dysetnry, just wondering whether the nursery should have grounds for treating it as dysentry - yes, notifying HPA