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Original poster

To think someone saying your hair is exotic & wanting to touch it is not racist?

348 replies

BoobleBeep · 16/11/2011 21:43

I'm wondering about this, I have tried to link the articale by Hannah Pool in Grazia but can't find it online.

It was an article on casual racism in the UK and she cited an incident where she had been in the womens toilets and a white women had said how beautiful and exotic her hair was and asked if she could touch it (whilkst reaching out and touching it), Hannah Pool said no you can't and teh women said she was rude.

I lived in Japan for years and had blonde hair back then. Lots of people saidhow exotic my hair was and people liked to touch it sometimes, it didn't bother me at all. My daughter is mixed race and has gorgeous very thick black hair and I love touching it as it is so different to my own.

OP posts:
sozzledchops · 18/11/2011 14:24

It is strange behaviour coming from a British person, we tend to be more conservative and less touchy feely, respecting physical boundaries more than many other cultures I've encountered. I've had my kids photographed, touched, grabbed and held, let out of their buggy while shopping when my back was turned for a sec, given sweets etc by other cultures, I can't imagine doing this myself. The woman sounds bonkers.

forehead · 18/11/2011 14:29

Fuzzy ,
Can you imagine being villified on a daily basis because of your colour?
Can you imagine peope assuming that you are sub human because of your colour?
Can you imagine people assuming that you are going to steal from their shops because of your colour?
Can you imagine people crossing the road to avoid you because of your colour?
Can you imagine being concerned that you will not get the job that you are qualified to get, because of your colour.?
Can you imagine your colour being an issue every day of your life?
I bet you can't........

fuzzynavel · 18/11/2011 14:54

forehead, how do you know all this happens? There is a lot of "assuming" going on. Sounds a bit paranoid to me.

dreamingbohemian · 18/11/2011 14:56

Exquisite:
'Oh and compliments in terms of the eastern Europeans are limited. ... Usually because a shot putters jaw and build are less favourable to some in favour of long Asian hair.'

What the actual fuck?

WarrantOfficerRipley · 18/11/2011 15:01

Grin at what the actual fuck.

Why when people discuss racism is there always someone who thinks they are pulling the race card out at the drop of a hat? Confused The article is supposedly about insidious, casual racism that people (all over the world) are putting up with on a daily basis. I would not start screaming "racism" if someone 'complimented' me in that way but as Slinky said language - and people's perceptions of it - does change and so I would NOT be endeared to them.

Last year I was at a social event with some people who were very close friends and some others who I had never met before. One woman in an attempt to be 'friendly' came up to me and said "aah yes you're WORipley aren't you? I thought I'd seen a picture of a coloured girl that someone had put up". I think the smile froze on my face .. I talked to her for a couple of minutes longer in a civil manner (I hope) and then turned away to talk to someone else and did not engage with her for the rest of the evening.

If that makes me intolerant or seeing racism on every corner then so be it. I just felt that I had nothing further to say to her. That we weren't on the same wavelength. Because the first thing that came into her head to say to me was to point out that I was different to her (while at the same time using a term that has long gone out of common usage and is deemed rather racist). Hmm I lost interest.

If she had asked to touch my hair I would have said no.

WarrantOfficerRipley · 18/11/2011 15:05

It did not blight my whole life though and cause me to lose any sleep

fuzzynavel · 18/11/2011 15:06

Because the first thing that came into her head to say to me was to point out that I was different to her

We are visual creatures and notice differences. Some people are not very socially ept.

forehead · 18/11/2011 15:10

Fuzzy , why am i not surprised by your reply.
As you are unable to understand 'inferences'i will explain it more succintly.You and I are white and will NEVER have to go througn the experience of a black individual.

EleanorRathbone · 18/11/2011 15:13

And black people are supposed to smile and be patient and nice all the time fuzzynavel, and if just occasionally they get a bit bloody snippy because they are fucking sick to death of being patronised that week, or in a work context where it is less easy to deal with effectively, they are pulling the race card?

FFS. Now that's what I call casual racism. Why the fuck should people for whom discrimination is the backdrop to their lives, be nice and smiley and patient with fucking stupid clodhoppers the whole time? Jesus.

Spero · 18/11/2011 15:19

You don't have to be 'nice and smiley' all the time. But nor do you have to go to the opposite extreme and call them racists (or call their behaviour racist - thats a distinction I suspect lost on a lot of toddlers as it is often lost on me. I am what I repeatedly do, as Aristotle would say).

I used to react very aggressively at comments aimed at my disability. That was counter productive on two grounds. First, it made me feel like shit and ruined my whole day. Second, I am sure that 90% of the commentators were just slightly inept gaffe prone people and being snarled at by me when they were trying to be nice was NOT going to promote their understanding of disability issues or change their mindsets. I find now that a more neutral response is a lot more beneficial for all invovled in the exchange.

I think HP was perfectly entitled to feel that the hair toucher was rude and inappropriate. However, to call her racist/exhibitor of racist behaviour does not move the debate forward very much if at all.

Commenting on different is not necessarily a demonstration of intolerance, superior economic power or whatever definition of racism is au courant.

dreamingbohemian · 18/11/2011 15:21

There's some serious post-colonial hangovers on this thread.

I mean, gosh, why should white people have to make soooo much effort to not say anything offensive? why don't those other people just not get offended? I mean, do you know how hard it is to say black instead of coloured? It's so taxing to my two little brain cells.

I can't believe it's 2011 sometimes.

fuzzynavel · 18/11/2011 15:24

Ok, forehead, where did you get all that stuff from? I wrote "MY" experiences.

Eleanor, when did i say that black people should smile and be nice all the time?

The initial thread was about someone touching someone elses hair. The person was obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic, and the word "exotic", hardly anything to get into an emotional mess, thinking you're being picked on.

If anyone is inciting racism it's you forehead.

forehead · 18/11/2011 15:26

Spero, HP's point was that 'racist' behaviour comes in all guises and is inherent in many individuals, even those who appear to be behaving politely.

WarrantOfficerRipley · 18/11/2011 15:32

Anyway I think to answer the OP's original point which got a bit bogged down in the what-is-racism debate. I think she mentioned that she has two blonde blue-eyed kids and and that her mixed-race little girl has beautiful thick black hair that she always wants to touch and that she likes to compliment her on how exotic she is.

We all like to touch our kids hair, I would just stick to telling her she is beautiful (if you want) as someone else said. I personally don't particularly like telling my little girl that she is looking very pwetty today and what a pwetty dress she is wearing , just like I don't like telling my son that he is a big strapping lad and that he shouldn't want to kiss and cuddle me because that's for wussy girls.

Because I don't feel the need to keep highlighting the differences between them.

forehead · 18/11/2011 15:33

'If anyone is inciting racism it's you forehead'
Where have i heard those sentiments before.?
Oh yes i remember ,from the BNP manual ---Article 1

'When those woolly liberals pull you up on your ignorant views, just resort to calling them racist'

FreudianSlipper · 18/11/2011 15:41

said it before i shall say it again its the pc brigde that make people racist

FreudianSlipper · 18/11/2011 15:42

brigade ...

fuzzynavel · 18/11/2011 15:44

Now now forehead, get off your soap box Grin

There are always going to be zealots, ay forehead.

forehead · 18/11/2011 15:44

Racist love to blame the pc brigade. It's ignorance and stupidity that make people racist.
Racist should at least'own' their racism fgs

dreamingbohemian · 18/11/2011 15:46

I'm pretty sure it's racism that makes people racist, actually.

Oh why do I bother.

lollilou · 18/11/2011 15:46

Eamon Holmes was wittering on about touching Misha Bs hair this morning. Racist or not? Discuss.

dreamingbohemian · 18/11/2011 15:47

Oh sorry forehead, i wasn't directing that at you Grin

forehead · 18/11/2011 15:47

There is just no hope for some people...ignorance is certainly not bliss.

hackmum · 18/11/2011 15:49

"Exotic" is one of those awful words used to describe people who are black. It is a horrible, patronising word. If the woman had said, "You've got lovely hair, can I touch it?" that's not quite so bad, though it is a bit weird wanting to touch someone else's hair, don't you think?

fuzzynavel · 18/11/2011 15:51

*said it before i shall say it again its the pc brigade that make people racist"

Bravo Freudian