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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or is this teacher being very unprofessional?

156 replies

UnprofessionalTeacher · 16/11/2011 17:21

Have name changed for this incase I get flamed for being so inconsiderate, etc. Can't take a pasting atm. Am not a troll, poos in memorable places, mile for Maude, Cod, etc.

DD is in Yr 1. She's in a class which emcompasses reception, and Yrs 1-2. Obviously a small school, but class is fairly big due to different years.

DD's teacher has a daughter who started at reception in a different primary school in Sept. This primary school only did half days for first month. So every afternoon the teacher's DD would be dropped off at school and spend the afternoon in the classroom with her mum while her mum worked.

Now this other primary school isn't far away and finishes 30 minutes earlier. A friend of the teacher's picks this girl up and drops her off with her mum every day. IE; with my daughter's teacher in the classroom for the last 20-25 minutes of the day. Now according to dd and a couple of older kids there is a fair amount of the last 20 minutes of the day spent with the teacher having her attention focused on her DD, listening to what she did in school, etc.

So one of my friends has written to the headmaster asking if he's aware of what's happening and that parents aren't happy. He's written a letter back saying as far as he's concerned it can carry on. The letter is snotty and states that he would rather have this arrangement and have his staff happy than have them pulling sickies all the time. Shock Direct quote.

I can't believe how unprofessional it is. Its maybe not the worst thing in the world but its 20 minutes a day for the next few years where the teacher isn't focused. Not good enough in my book.

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 20/11/2011 11:49

Maybe it's gone on so long because the Head has made it clear there is absolutely no need for this woman to bother with childcare for the sake of 20 minutes per day...because the Head actually welcomes the child and prides himself on being family friendly when it comes to his staff.

She's not taking the piss if the Head is quite happy with the arrangement, and from what the OP has said, I see no reason why he should be anything other than happy.

FlamingoBingo · 20/11/2011 11:56

And maybe the head's letter was snippy because she and the staff and governors had discussed the ins and outs of the issue for hours and made a very informed and reasoned decision and was sitting waiting for letters of complaint and sighed very heavily when she started receiving them and is irritated that having made such an effort to make the school a happy, welcoming place to learn and work, she is still being complained at?

FlamingoBingo · 20/11/2011 11:56

(or 'he' if HT is a he)

callmemrs · 20/11/2011 11:57

Worraliberty - I assume that most schools have regular meetings after school; also this is a time when parents may need to speak to the teacher. Its not very reasonable for the Head to assume other teachers and the parents are happy to conduct meetings with a 4 year old around.

I am all for child friendly practices, but not as a substitute for childcare. Ony fair to the child, parent, colleagues and clients to have proper childcare in place as the norm

WorraLiberty · 20/11/2011 12:00

callme No-one has said this little girl prevents the teacher from speaking to other parents, no-one has said that if she did speak to other parents or colleagues that it would have to be in front of her 4yr old? Confused

We have no idea what arrangements are made in that situation.

callmemrs · 20/11/2011 12:07

No indeed - but as the child is clearly in the care of her mother, it would seem surprising if actually a childminder is on hand to whisk the child off if a parent needs to speak to her!!

Given that I would imagine most schools are going to have meetings at least once a week, and parents may want to talk to the teacher after school pretty regularly, then it is an issue. I would not be happy about the idea of a 4 year old either being left unsupervised while meetings take place, or indeed being in the same room. That's not on.

lisad123 · 20/11/2011 12:12

You say it's only for a month and then say years! Which is it?
I do take my girls to work in school holidays Grin

madamehooch · 20/11/2011 12:13

I'm with those who recommend checking your facts thoroughly before you do anything further.

I'm just wondering about the time scale. If the teacher's daughter finishes 30 minutes earlier, it seems unlikely that she would be with her mother five minutes or even ten minutes later, bearing in mind the teacher's friend would have to pick her up, get her in the car and get through pick up traffic, then drop her off and get the girl into the school. It could be that the child is not in the class for as long as you think she is. Please do not rely on the evidence given by the children - do they clockwatch every day?

WorraLiberty · 20/11/2011 12:17

Why would a childminder need to be on hand? Hmm

Why would you not assume another teacher happily offers to take her to the staff room for a sandwich and a drink?

Why would you not assume the teacher has her meetings totally covered because they either take place at lunch time or because there's always another adult happy to help out?

There are a million and one ways this teacher can work things and as the OP has not once mentioned unhappy staff, there's no point in assuming they are.

callmemrs · 20/11/2011 12:19

Good point madamehooch

It may be that in reality its more like 5 or 10 minutes in the classroom, after which the child is picked up by a childminder while the teacher gets on with her work/attends meetings.

The pickup sounds like a favour done by another school mum, not a childminder. Maybe the only childminder with spaces lives near the school, and cannot do the pick up because she doesn't have transport so takes over after a 10 minute interlude. You certainly can't rely on young children to be precise about timings. This sounds a far more likely scenario. Having a SIL and several friends who are teachers, I know the work doesn't stop at 3.30, so I imagine the teacher is using childcare otherwise she wouldn't be able to get the job done. That would also explain how meetings etc are covered.

Leo35 · 20/11/2011 12:28

Haven't read all the replies. Hmm the childcare is taking place for roughly 20 mins each school day in the workplace? Those of us who have worked in a variety of non-school workplaces would probably go with the view that it is an unprofessional arrangement. Also within public sector there are notions of equity of oppportunity and would the same arrangement be given to the TA(s) in the class? Would it be an arrangement Head would be happy with in all classes should the circumstances come about?

The teacher is being paid to teach the children enrolled at that certain school, not regular visitors. The regularity and duration of the arrangement are key points plus the age of the teacher's child.

The OP states that there is a wide age range in the class, so there may well not be a lot of 'winding down' time at the end of the school day in work terms; so it's not such an easy case of dismissing it as only for watching CBeebies or doing colouring in. The 6 or 7 year olds will have better concentration and will need the teacher's teaching time still.

The matter to be more concerned about from a managerial p.o.v. is the precedent set. I'm sure a few other teachers and TAs in that school would appreciate such an arrangement, or indeed within the LEA. I know someone is going to mention Academies at this point!!!

callmemrs · 20/11/2011 12:35

You raise a good point Leo.
In this situation, the child might be well behaved and low maintenance. However, what if another staff member brings in a child who is noisy, distracting etc?

Also,'who decides how long is acceptable? 10 mins? 20 mins? Half the day?

Employees need to be treated equitably, so the head needs to be careful not to set a precedent which others may then jump on. I have said all along, I would not be happy with this a an ongoing arrangement. Child friendly practices mean things like flexible working/ time off in emergency/ workplace nurseries/ childcare vouchers - ie things which make it EASIER for parents to work. It doesn't mean having your child in your workplace

MuddlingMackem · 20/11/2011 12:58

callmemrs

so up until this point, the mother has obviously arranged proper childcare. It would be very odd, having done that, to assume that now her child is school age, she doesn't need to do that. IME, parents who have organised and paid for childcare all through the very early years are the LAST people to take the piss once their children reach school age.

callmemrs · 20/11/2011 13:01

Possible muddling- in which case if she just doesn't want to pay for childcare she is being v v v unreasonable!

OhTheConfusion · 20/11/2011 13:40

If I were you, and this is a regular arrangement I would be writing to the local authority to state my objection.

30min a day is 2.5hrs a week, there are roughly 38 school weeks in a year, making 91hrs of teaching a year that your child could be missing out on.

ditzymitzy2 · 20/11/2011 15:33

Have name changed for this incase I get flamed for being so inconsiderate, etc. Can't take a pasting atm. Am not a troll, poos in memorable places, mile for Maude, Cod, etc.

wonder if the OP realises how pathetic that makes a grown woman sound

JumpingJetFlash · 20/11/2011 16:15

Prior to working in a tiny village school I'd have said this was definitely not on but I have mellowed a little - my headteacher has allowed me to bring my daughter to join the ks1 class on a trip and sportsday so that I could attend (on a nonwork day for me as I work part time). They have also allowed my child to spend the day with that class when her school was closed and cm couldn't have her so that I could still teach the ks2 class. It was a win win as they didn't have to shell out for a supply and my class had their regular teacher following the curriculum rather than a supply who might struggle with the wide age range (apart from the bank of supply we use most do admit to finding it hard - I know I often do lol)

NormanTebbit · 20/11/2011 16:22

How times changeGrin

My mum always worked as a teacher and used to pop me into the school
Nursery class aged two whenever she was working. Nursery finished earlier so she would send two pupils down toget me from nursery and I would sit I class for the last twenty mins of the day!

I would spend all day with my dad at his secondary school job too. In fact MIL put her children to bed in the children's ward when on night shift in hospital.

It would 't bother me. But then I am very laid back..

TheWonderfulFanny · 20/11/2011 16:32

I really want to know if this is in Scotland and related to the previous 'my teacher neighbours are trying to guilt me into doing the school run for them' thread we had over the summer...

megapixels · 20/11/2011 16:35

Similar to Norman, it wouldn't bother me too. I seriously doubt that the teacher is going to be so distracted in that 20 minutes at the end of the school day that the other children's education is going to suffer Hmm.

NormanTebbit · 20/11/2011 16:40

But pupils are missing out on an hour and a half of education ^a week! Imagine the times tables that could be chanted, the verbs conjugated, the colouring in mastered!

FlamingoBingo · 20/11/2011 17:20

haha Norman

Abra1d · 20/11/2011 17:27

Wouldn't bother me.

I suspect some people are jealous that someone else has apparently got a sympathetic and sensible line-manager.

jasper · 20/11/2011 17:35

Wouldn't bother me either

MumblingAndBloodyRagDoll · 20/11/2011 17:43

Wouldn't bother me either. In fact, it sounds like a sensible school...I would rather deal with that type than the ones who do EVERYTHING by the book....ticking all the boxes wth no thought for community.

When I had my DD in a private prep, one teacher regulaly did this with her DD aged 8 and I never even considered it!

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