to do this to DN?

[lidldarling]

I have name-changed but my situation will be very recognisable to many posters who have given me a lot of support previously.

Just over a year ago we took on the full care of my DP's nephew who lost his parents as a baby and was brought up by his granny (my MIL). He loves his granny as a mother, but his behaviour at school was awful and eventually he refused to go for 3 months which is when he came to us. She couldn't handle him - can't tell him off, let him do whatever he wanted, etc.

Over the past year we have made big progress wtih DN. He now works reasonably hard at school and gets praise from his teachers, which is a big step up as just six months ago we were being called in almost daily because of his behaviour and he was spending most of the day in the exit room. He has much more self-esteem and is more positive. Some of this is down to me and some the school. DP has been mainly involved in his work and not had much input.

We're currently living in my flat and desperate to move - our toddler (2.2) doesn't have a bedroom which is getting to be a bit of a problem. We also want to move out of London for better school for DN. But we can't get enough of a mortgage to do this. Well, we could do it with a bit of subterfuge but this worries me a lot.

So, and here is my dilemma, DP wants to move to one of two EUropean cities where I will be able to get much more work as a freelancer (I have to think about my career because DS will be at school in a couple of years). DP can work anywhere. With this plan DN would go to a bilingual school which is small, Catholic, private and basically a different planet to his current inner city comp which he loves because he's a gangsta etc. However, I don't think he fits in as much or is as happy there as he makes out. He has never brought anyone back here, noone ever calls, he's alone all weekend and holidays etc. We're worried about the temptations in the form of drugs he will be exposed to over the next few years as he's the type to do anything to fit in.

I once sounded him out on the idea of moving to a foreign city and he was absolutely appalled and said it was the worst idea ever. It would make it very difficult for him to see granny. He currently spends the holidays with her and she comes up often to see him. We would both quite like her to have less influence over his life.

If we go, he may refuse point blank to come with us and if we can't persuade him, he'll have to go back to granny which would be a disaster for him educationally as he won't keep up this progress if he's back there. He will absolutely hate his new school (at least at first) but DP is convinced we can make him go and that although he'll hate it it's a good thing for him and his education in the long run. The worst bit will be the taking him away from his granny. I'm not sure I can do this. Sorry this is so very long.

Are you his legal guardians? If so, and he is under sixteen, then you don't ask him to go with you - you tell him that's whats happening. No choices.

Harsh, but it's what i'd do.

He doesn't have a legal guardian. He went to granny when his parents died (he was a baby) and then to us. As his uncle, DP doesn't need legal guardianship. We could get it - granny wouldn't mind. I feel bad about forcing him to go, but perhaps I'm just being a wimp. DP just thinks we should do it for his own good.

I think if he is doing well in school at the moment it wouldn't be in his best interest to move. He has just started to get more involved with his school work and is doing better. If he already doewsn't have a lot of friends I don't think he will make friends if he moves either.

What an incredibly sad story. I don't envy you at all with this choice. If he were your son, I'd say, well, he'd get used to the new school and the new city in time, and it would be a good experience for him. But given that he's already lost both his parents and has had to move away from his granny, then clearly what he needs is some stability.

How important is it for you as a family that you move to the foreign city? DP can work anywhere, so is it going to make a big difference in terms of the amount of work you get, or could you get freelance work in the UK? Where did you live and work before you had a child? How old is DN, and is it feasible to put off the move until he's 16?

DN is nearly 14. DS is 2 and it's starting to be quite a problem that we don't have a bedroom for him. For various reasons it is difficult for us to rent. I also need to get my career back. We really want to get DN into a better school or there is a very great danger of him losing his way - I say this on the basis of the friends he chooses and the image he likes to project of himself.

I have to make a decision for the whole family - if it was a bad deal for him I wouldn't even consider it, but the fact is he will come out with a better education and probably bilingual (he's got a natural aptitude for languages).

If his granny is and has been so important to him why are you keen to put some distance between him and her? Not wishing to sound judgey just curious because this would be the key issue and reason to stay put rather than his school/friends I'd say.

I would say that your DH applies for legal responsibility for your DN and you take him. You could always focus on all the positives. The cultural experience, the fresh start with people who don't know his history, and he could always choose to come back in a couple of years. He wouldn't be totally separated from his granny. There are always the summer holidays.

You implied yourself that there is nothing to stay for. He is starting to do well in school but he still mixes with the wrong crowd. I only think if it was my DD and she was mixing with the wrong lot then that alone would be reason enough to get her far away as possible. I know he's not your DC but if you are taking the responsibility as if he was.

I'd go. It sounds like you'd all have a better life if you moved, DN included.

Her influence is very negative - she undermines us, gives him things behind our back, sides with him to protect him from our strict ways, keeps secrets about things that have happened he doesn't want us to know and tops him up with champers at every opportunity. We are in a sort of triangular relationship which he has learned to play - noone knows what's really going on as she feels she cannot tell us anything because he has made her 'promise' not to tell. It's all a bit weird. He is a lovely kid but he needs fair but constant rules.

ooh difficult, firstly i think you should get legal guardianship just to cover yourselves and your dn, its always best to have these basis covered.

with regards to the move, i would research it with your dn, get him involved so he can see the positives and see if this changes his mind a bit? i do think at this age it will be hard for him and he has already been through a lot, BUT i agree with you it sounds like it could well be a fantastic opportunity for him. i take it there is no chance of you being able to afford a holiday to the place you are thinking of moving to, maybe just you and your dn, a real treat for him and a chance to go and have a look around, it may make him more interested in the idea?

I think I might remember your original thread/s. Wasn't Granny a bit of a problem, bad influence-wise? Not nastily, but very indulgent and incapable of setting and keeping boundaries and rules? How often does he see Granny, and do you think it might actually benefit him to have some distance between them?

I think you need to consider this as a family, he is effectively your older son now, and as such I'd say it's up to you to choose where you live, to the benefit of the whole family.

Personally, I'd go.

OP I'm curious why it has to be one of these 2 European cities?

If you moved to a different UK location still within a couple of hours from Granny, you'd probably find your accommodation costs were so dramatically reduced compared to London that you wouldn't have to worry about how easy it was for you to find work.

X-posted. I see.

Sounds like the European move makes sense in light of subsequent posts.

Thanks for all the posts - I'm so grateful for your viewpoints. I suppose I just hate to give him the bad news and also a little fearful of going through the tidal wave of bad feeling that will come my way. Our relationship is difficult because I'm the one keeping him in line. It would be a constant battle because granny brought him up to think he didn't have to do anything he didn't want to do. But I do agree it's for his own good. DP is much more hardcore than me and just says he'll have to get on with it and is actually very lucky to get the opportunity of a much better education and to be bilingual. I'm a wimp.

4Mad I do agree that the more we involve him the better. I just think he'll freak when he sees the website for the school - it's just about his worst nightmare.

Big fish, small pond angle?

Another vote for going. If he's as easily led and desperate to fit in as you think, it's probably only a matter of time before he ends up in trouble anyway. He's too young to decide his own future.

This is so tough. Moving can be very difficult, but hey, sometimes life is challenging and we just have to face it, whatever our age.

I agree about getting legal guardianship, and I fully agree with not giving him an option about whether he moves with you or not - you are now his family, and you move as a family, and that should absolutely be that.

Having said that, he should be allowed his say in some of the choices you make. Also you need to investigate and show him the positives that are an offer to him as much as possible. Are there clubs or activities he could avail of there which he cannot do at home, for example? What can you do to make the move seem more attractive? It must be a very scary prospect for him. Do give him time to get used to the idea.

My family moved to Brussels when I was 7, I always missed my relatives back home but settled in pretty quickly over there. 7 is very different to 14 though.

Sarah I actually think he's quite good at making friends but has had no luck at his current school for reasons that aren't his fault. He does always tend, though, to go for the naughty kids. But what he really needs is a good friend he can be himself with instead of always trying to be all cool.

I'm really glad others see this as a positive move.

He is very negative about any other activities - he just wants to hang out with his mates.

Ceebie, Brussels is one of the two options! If you don't mind me asking, what was your experience of the bilingual schools (assuming you went to one)?

Hi OP.

I agree that it will probably be very positive for him long term, if there is anything you can find to make the prospect of the new school more attractive it will be worth the effort. Could you go on holiday their perhaps and arrange with the school for him to spend a few days there?

lidl well steer clear of the school website, but big up ANYTHING else that might interest him, sports, clubs, outdoor activites, anything you think that he will like, hell even if the weather is better. plus all the pros of a nicer place to live, better standard of living, maybe more income to you so more pocket money for him anything that woudl help encourage a 14 yr old but ultimately if i was you i would get guardingship and give it a go, it really does sound like a great opportunity for him and you all as a family.

i think that people are often veyr wary of uprooting children and moving them, but as someone who moved frequently in my childhood it really wasnt a problem and i lived abroad as well as the uk and i adjusted and think i had a better childhood for it.

Is it really difficult to find a better, Catholic school outside inner city London, where you can have a bigger house, in the UK?

Displacing a child, and taking him away from the language and culture he knows, and a granny that he loves, at secondary age, seems an odd move. And to say it is to give him better education, I am not sure it works like that.

I uprooted my children twice, to move overseas, and to move back.
It is one heck of a big thing for a child to get to grips with a new school system, and to get up to speed in a different curriculum. It is a big ask, to do this, while also getting to learn a new culture, and to find out how things work in a new system.

Is it your home country?