to do this to DN?

[lidldarling]

I have name-changed but my situation will be very recognisable to many posters who have given me a lot of support previously.

Just over a year ago we took on the full care of my DP's nephew who lost his parents as a baby and was brought up by his granny (my MIL). He loves his granny as a mother, but his behaviour at school was awful and eventually he refused to go for 3 months which is when he came to us. She couldn't handle him - can't tell him off, let him do whatever he wanted, etc.

Over the past year we have made big progress wtih DN. He now works reasonably hard at school and gets praise from his teachers, which is a big step up as just six months ago we were being called in almost daily because of his behaviour and he was spending most of the day in the exit room. He has much more self-esteem and is more positive. Some of this is down to me and some the school. DP has been mainly involved in his work and not had much input.

We're currently living in my flat and desperate to move - our toddler (2.2) doesn't have a bedroom which is getting to be a bit of a problem. We also want to move out of London for better school for DN. But we can't get enough of a mortgage to do this. Well, we could do it with a bit of subterfuge but this worries me a lot.

So, and here is my dilemma, DP wants to move to one of two EUropean cities where I will be able to get much more work as a freelancer (I have to think about my career because DS will be at school in a couple of years). DP can work anywhere. With this plan DN would go to a bilingual school which is small, Catholic, private and basically a different planet to his current inner city comp which he loves because he's a gangsta etc. However, I don't think he fits in as much or is as happy there as he makes out. He has never brought anyone back here, noone ever calls, he's alone all weekend and holidays etc. We're worried about the temptations in the form of drugs he will be exposed to over the next few years as he's the type to do anything to fit in.

I once sounded him out on the idea of moving to a foreign city and he was absolutely appalled and said it was the worst idea ever. It would make it very difficult for him to see granny. He currently spends the holidays with her and she comes up often to see him. We would both quite like her to have less influence over his life.

If we go, he may refuse point blank to come with us and if we can't persuade him, he'll have to go back to granny which would be a disaster for him educationally as he won't keep up this progress if he's back there. He will absolutely hate his new school (at least at first) but DP is convinced we can make him go and that although he'll hate it it's a good thing for him and his education in the long run. The worst bit will be the taking him away from his granny. I'm not sure I can do this. Sorry this is so very long.

I think it would be a really bad thing for your dn to move away. It sounds like he's gd so much disruption already. Can you find somewhere bigger locally? Having taken hin on and made such great progress it would be terrible to undo that now.

Quint we don't want a Catholic school, it's just that the school in this city that's bilingual and affordable is Catholic. It wouldn't be my first choice but I think he will end up with better qualifications. If it sticks it out of course. My parents moved me through 4 secondary schools, so I do know how hideous it is.

There are places where we could afford a 4 bed house in the UK but that would mean uprooting him anyway, and us living somewhere we don't want to live (Granny is not in London anyway). One of the main reasons we're doing it though is that I don't think he's getting a good education where he is.

No, it's not a home country, it would be a new venture for all of us.

We can't afford a 4 bed house in London where we are now. There's no way - I wish there was.

Did you also move between education systems, between countries?

I went to Le Verseau, a Belgian international school. I was was only there for primary school before going to boarding school in Ireland, although it does do secondary level too. Entirely French-speaking - except English classes obviously! (which were taught by English staff for those for whom English was their first language). My first teacher didn't speak any English so initially a Canadian pupil translated for me - but I picked French up in no time. It was a very highly regarded school, and a very popular choice for Belgians as well as international students. I think the standard of education was high - I and my sisters had no trouble when we returned to Ireland for secondary school, in fact we were near the tops of our classes - we didn't have to catch up at all. Similar story for other British friends.

As you're probably aware, there is a British School of Brussels and an Internation School of Brussels (American) too, if a French-speaking school sounds too much like being thrown in at the deep end. Also an important consideration if there is a possibility you might move back to the UK before he has finished secondary-level education - at least he wouldn't have to change curriculum. This was one of the reasons we were sent to boarding school - to ensure we wouln't have to change educational systems in the middle of secondary... primary wasn't so important to interrupt.

Could you and DN go and view a few schools together, if you are willing to allow a choice of schools for him?

It's been a very long time since I lived over there. My memories are that they tend to have fab sports facilities in Belgium. The ice rink made an impression on me because I had never been to one in Ireland. There was a massive cinema multiplex near the Atomium which I was allowed go to with my friend on the metro line when I was a little older. However, I have no idea what 14 year old boys are into these days - none of the above, I'm sure. However I'm sure Brussels must have a lot to offer your DN. Brussels is a fantastic city. Buy him a gauffre from a street-seller: I'm sure it'll win him over!

No, Quint, not between countries. Look, I understand it will be very difficult for DN, and that he has had a very difficult time already. I asked for opinions because I'm trying to decide if it is worth uprooting him in this way, with all the upset it will cause. We are worried how things will turn out for him if he stays where he is. A move could potentially be the making of him and at worst, two miserable years hating it (but presumably getting the education and the qualifications), hating us etc, not having any friends. The other thing is, we need to make decisions for our family - we are all squashed in a flat now and would all benefit from space. I would like DN to live somewhere where we could let him go out and socialise more freely - the one time we let him out here after 8pm he got mugged.

if you moved there, could you commit to stay there until his education was complete?

Hi,
to give another perspective...

I moved at about that age to a new country that a was culturally quite different but had the same language. I was super enthusiastic about the move, but even though I was 100% behind my parent's decision and didn't have the language issues to deal with it really was very very hard. Trying to navigate all the teenage social crap in a place full of unfamiliar people and unfamilar social structures can be really really hard unless you are a superconfident person. Add the language difficulty in to the mix would make it something that I wouldn't choose for my child unless the alternative was pretty horrendous. Unless he is on side, it wil be a very difficult move for all of you IMO.

good luck.

And his age it the key factor here.
If he has two really awful years, then this will take him to the age where he can choose to leave school, come 'home' and leave his relationship with youand your DH in a really negative place.

It is not just going to be difficult for him, I can assure you. It will be you picking up the pieces and having to deal with him, and the reactions to the move. It might also be you tearing your hair out trying to ensure he does his homework, do well in exams, and try help him settle and fit in. All while you get to grips yourself with living in a new country, a new society, while finding out how to do your tax returns, and what not......

You can never assume things work the same as the place you live in currently. And you wont necessarily think to ask, unless you know exactly where the differences are.

ceebie thanks for that. We would definitely want a bilingual school so he could be taught in English but they all seem to charge 26k per year, and we just can't afford that. We found one in Brussels that's v. small, Catholic and charges 6k per year which we can afford and offers the GCSE syllabus so he could move between the two countries. I don't even know if we can get him in there though.

Oh, of course we used to do day-trips to Germany and Holland and cross-country skiing in the Ardennes - drive for 2 hours in any direction and you leave Belgium. It is also VERY easy to get to London on the Eurostar.

What about the Belgian beers?

Quint, yes it looks set to be very hard for me. The past year and a half has been very hard in fact, in just the ways you describe - bringing up other people's moody teenagers is not for the faint-hearted at any time. THis is absolutely what brings me to this thread today. Will he stand it - and will I? I feel exhausted at the thought.

THe social/fitting in thing is obviously what would worry him most. But I suppose if I'm optimistic, I would hope there would be nice kids there who he could have proper friendships with. Presumably there would be a lot of children who move about a lot.

Hi lidldarling, hmm, my parents had the benefit of being moved by my Dad's company so I suspect the company might have picked up the educational bill. Sounds good if you can keep him on the GCSE syllabus - makes it much easier.

Can I ask what other city you are considering?

I think this is exactly the kind of extreme move (in the circumstances) that can either work out really well, or quite the opposite! I dont envy you the situation.

But, on the other hand, if he feels happy and secure as a part of your family, and this move will be good for the family overall. More money, better house, better work life balance, and you can help him settle by finding exciting activities for him to do, and really work your arse of trying to get a social circle for yourself and him, then it might be worth it. You should also be prepared he might need additional private tuition to get him up to speed with the new curriculum. And ensure he learns the languages. Even if the school is bilingual, everything on tv, newspapers, popular culture, in shops, will be "in foreign" and this could be hard to deal with.

THanks Ceebie. Sadly, none of those wonderful opportunities will impress him. He just cares about hanging with his mates and computer games. I would hope he would enjoy them once he was there and they were on offer. I work a fair bit in Brussels and agree it's very convenient - granny could meet him off Eurostar for weekends.

He will go ballistic when we mention it as a possibility. Granny will never refuse to take him back (although she would be desperate at the prospect of going back to bringing him up). So moving there may mean him leaving us. I don't want to let him down.

Moving is VERY daunting. But you really can't opt out of change for fear of the consequences - you only live once and have to take the opportunities. The main thing is that you acknowledge when a decision has been a mistake and do your best to remedy it.

Who knows whether it will be horrendous for DN or the making of him? Whichever decision you make, you'll never know whether the alternative would have been better or worse. However, you are clearly trying to do you very best for your DN as well as the rest of your family.

The other city is Madrid. Easier to sell maybe, but much trickier journey for him to see Granny.

Quint, our relationship is up and down - I wouldn't say he was particularly happy with us. We're like a boarding school away from granny. He resents me for setting rules and boundaries (although I think he knows he needs them).

I really think he shouldn't have the choice of going back to live with granny. You are his family now, are you not? So you move as a family. I know it sounds harsh but that's how it is for most families.

(Also, somewhere deep down, possibly not for another 10 or 15 years, but one day he might recognise and maybe even appreciate that you were determined to have him with you and that moving abroad was not something that would be at the expensive of losing him as a family member).

Nothing useful to add, but OP, I just wanted to say what warm and generous guardians you and your partner seem, given the seriousness with which you're considering the move from your nephew's point of view. Kudos to you, whatever you decide.

One question - you say all he cares about is 'hanging out with his mates', yet you said somewhere else that he spends weekends alone and never brings anyone home. Why are his friends at once so important to him and so oddly absent from his life outside of school hours?

Hello Maryz, yes, it's me!

We will definitely sell the holiday aspect, frequent trips home and 'nothing's forever you can always come back if it doesn't work out'.

He has worked really hard recently and made such a huge improvement at school - he is massively motivated by money, future career possibilities too, so I think we'd hard sell that too.

I dont think him coming back should be an option. I think maybe with this boy he needs to feel part of a family, and the choice should not be there....

Thanks Hardcheese for your warm words! We are doing our very best.

The friends thing is sad. I know friendship happens a lot more online now. He says he has lots of mates at school, and the school say he is always with friends, not hanging around on his own. He's incredibly sensitive about it and I haven't really managed to work out what the deal is. I asked granny the other day what he had said to her and she just said I shouldn't ask him about it. Not quite sure what she was on about.