To suggest that newborns needing to lie flat in prams ect is a load of old tripe?

[fannybaws]

Every time I hear this referred to I want to jump up and down a bit, the notion that babies need to lie flat "for their spine/back "
Is it simply a bit of old marketing from a pram manufacturer that has become lodged in the national psyche???

They are just as unhelpful but thankfully 150 miles away

Funnysinthegarden, yes me too, have many straight backed children too.
I really do think its fab marketing by the big baby equipment retailers.
I am not talking about premmies and desaturation here, I am talking about people being sold the idea that babies need to have flat prams for the first 6 months.

I think even without a diagnosis of autism, it still wouldn't be OK to keep a baby in a pushchair for all those hours Winter.

Especially if he was older, they want to be 'doing stuff' don't they?

Thank you AZ, I think so and always have. SIL is going to have a baby soon and I doubt she would be happy for the baby to spend three hours on the road in order to visit us.

But she also thinks that she is going to take the six-month-old baby on a sailing holiday in Italy in July (beautiful red-headed alabaster-complexioned) and that the child will be happy to sit on the broiling sun in a pushchair watching races.

it's not only premature babies whose oxygen levels desaturate.

Flat pram- I know plenty of people who choose them so that their baby can lie in them as though they were in their moses basket while they are out shopping.

Plus, a baby lying flat in a pram is more likely to be more sheltered from extremes of heat or cold, and a big benefit for many people is that the lie-flat prams are parent facing and will convert at a later date to a more upright seat.

If you don't want one, then fine, don't have one. But don't dismiss years of research just because you are being cynical.

There have been at least 2 babies who died in our area relatively recently linked with being allowed to sleep in carseats overnight

Think it was something to do with heads flopping forward and stopping them being able to breathe properly...

Oh and although I don't remember all the details I don't think either of them had been premature.

I was not talking about car seats.

So what are you referring to?

Can you link to examples of what you consider to be fine?

OP, no you didnt mention car seats, but they are the alternatives to traveling in a carrycot are they not??

No car seats are for cars, am thinking more about slings ect.

Try being placed in a half sitting, half lying position with you head lying to one side for several hours. See how comfortable you feel. That's how your tiny baby feels once you've pushed it around like that for several hours while shopping.

Until they're old enough to support their head, they should lie down.

Carseats are not just for cars unfortunatly...lots of babies spend too much time scrunched up in the bloody things.

OP - ''The idea that newborns need to lie flat in a carrycot to be transported.''

What else would be the alternative to this statement if not a carseat???

It's nothing to do with marketing or straight spines.
Babies have significantly large heads, prominent occiput,(back of head) no necks, floppy airways and therefore are at risk if they are sitting at an angle as their heads will compress the airway as the head flops down. A few posters have stated this already. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that babies not positioned flat on their backs have an increased likelihood of stopping breathing or having some breathing difficulty. Therefore prolonged car journeys in a car seat are not recommended. As is positioning flat in a pram.
If you had a massive head that compressed your airway, it would be pretty uncomfortable.
Sorry but YABU.

Sorry positioning flat in pram IS recommended!!!!

I trained as a children's nurse for a while. One of the nurses I worked with told me tales of babies she had cared for who had died because they had fallen asleep hunched up in buggies and it had blocked their windpipe

Exactly Belle. If OP did some research before posting that would help.

A lot of people don't research and think they know more then everyone else. She saw 4 newborns. It's 4 families without their child.

fwiw I was not taking about prams vs carseats, I was talking about parents spending lots of money on the pram base then not using it as baby is more settled in the buggy bit or a sling.
I was not talking about car seats.
I am talking about out and about not at home or overnight.

I don't understand your point based on your last post.

It is well known, and well supported that the position that a buggy or a car seat puts a small baby into is not good for them and can be dangerous.

A good sling is completely different because the baby is positioned in such a way tha the head is supported and the airway clear. There are some slings that have been found not to do this and some have been recalled, ie some of the bag type slings.

If you are going to use a pram, the baby needs to be lying flat in the first few months. It's up to an individual parent whether they want to spend the money on a pram which has a separate carrycot that will only last for a few months, or whether they want to get something that fully reclines for a small baby and then goes upright when they get older.

Slings like the tomy ones or the baby bjorn or the cybex ones where they are suspending the baby by their crotch are not good for spine development because they place unnatural stress on the spine. Therefore they should not be used for long periods of time (though from anecdotal evidence they are so uncomfortable you couldn't wear them for too long anyway.) I have a nagging feeling that the seats which force babies to sit up in unnatural ways like the bumbo have similar problems, but have not seen evidence for this so it's just a gut feeling.

Decent slings, wrap slings wrapped properly, well designed mei tais, or soft structured carriers, hold the baby's back straight and their legs either crossed in front of them, as newborns tend to do with their legs, or in a sitting position for older infants. If the baby's back is curved when it is in a sling, it is not positioned correctly. If a sling is designed to hold a baby in a position which you would not usually hold them in in your arms, it is a badly designed sling (e.g. "Bag slings" which are now banned, they are so dangerous.)

I think reclined prams/pushchairs are fine for babies. They're fine in those bouncy chairs which aren't 100% flat. I think it's the difference between holding them in a straight backed, natural position and them being forced by gravity or the positioning of the seat or whatever into a position which is unnatural and puts unnatural strain on things. I had a lie flat pushchair (didn't use a carrycot) but once DS was 4 months he wanted to be in a semi-reclined position.

So what is your point - that carrycots are unnecessary? Because I think anyone would agree to that, as long as you have either a decent sling or a pushchair with a decent recline.

Well I would say my silver cross sleepover pram (bought from an ebay shop brand new, half the price it was in JL) was the best piece of baby equipment I bought when DS was born. Still like brand new and DD very happy in it too. Big enough for naps (can actually be used as a moses basket and came with a stand for that purpose) and very sturdy.