To think every SAHM, low hour PT worker and carer should read this?

[Peachy]

Well i am not but it matters to you so you must

here

Changes to system WRT worker hours

have a thread in chat and don;t want a debate, or at least won't participate iun one as petrified as we will now certianly lose our home and not up to taking flak. But if it affects you, you need to know.

Tax credits were aways a shit idea, they've enabled the companies and employers to pay the bare minimum to employees knowing that the government will be subsidising them just for taking a job. In the meantime all the profits have gone straight to the shareholders or higher echelons.

Once tax credits have gone companies will be forced to pay market rates to employees.

i like the idea but i cannot see low pay going up in a recession with the govt pushing more people towards work.

that will increase competition for low paid jobs. i dont see the govt raising minimum wage significantly.

Walk down any high street and look in the agency windows ,street cleaners ,warehouse jobs, catering work,cleaning all done by agency workers .

No job security at all ,is it any wonder people are reluctant to take them?

thats why benefits cannot be an alternative choice but only a last resort.

but looking at putting out a job advert from the employers side: you need to be able to hire people flexibly in low skilled jobs. if employers had to take staff on permanantly, those adverts might not be there at all.

how do you avoid jobs with low security? get valuable skills.

I wonder if minimum wage is part of the problem. We are a first world country with first world standards so there is no way we will be able to compete with the production and manufacturing coming from the far east.

I'm not for one minute thinking that we should be sending people down mines for bed and board but a macro view of the world might be helpful. If we can't produce cheaply then something is going to give.

We live in a protected bubble with education, health care and welfare but it's become our downfall. We aren't producing aspirational "hungry" kids. Life is almost too easy and we are going to be swept away by the competition.

Walk down any high street and look in the agency windows ,street cleaners ,warehouse jobs, catering work,cleaning all done by agency workers .

And every one of those is an opportunity that can lead to better opportunities. You do well, you work hard, you get noticed, maybe even made permanent or promoted. That's how life has always worked. except these days there's a pretty cushy alternative.

We live in a protected bubble with education, health care and welfare but it's become our downfall. We aren't producing aspirational "hungry" kids. Life is almost too easy and we are going to be swept away by the competition.

So true.

"You do well, you work hard, you get noticed, maybe even made permanent or promoted."

But that doesn't happen. At least not for the majority of menial, low-paid work. Yes if you temp in a shop or on reception somewhere you might be picked up for a permanent role, but for big companies or organisations, they use agencies for the simplicity and won't take anyone on directly in that type of role. So it doesn't matter how hard you work, you'll be stuck at that level.

Also our employment laws have become ridiculous. Why would an employer want to take someone on permanently? They become responsible for their tax and NI. They have to accommodate flexible working requests, they are obliged to hold jobs open if they wish to take maternity/paternity leave. They must give several warnings before they can be dismissed.

If we want employers to employ people then make it easier for them. Otherwise this growth in agency and temp working will spiral.

I know plenty of people who work hard for agencies and have never been given a permanent job

Its easier for companies to use agency workers

Lookat - I agree that for confident, hardworking people with good basic skills, and who have access to reliable and affordable childcare, there are probably good opportunities to be realised through low paid casual the low paid temporary work. Unfortunately many people working in the sector have poor literacy and numeracy, no confidence and inadequate childcare. Which is why they haven't obtained work in better paid jobs with more benefits.

When we were younger dh had a variety of agency jobs which would only last 3 months, then he would have to move on somewhere else no prospect for promotion or a proper contract etc that would be too much trouble for the company. He was lucky that he got out of it but i know of alot of people still stuck in the weekly pay, one days notice cycle.

Whoops, apologies for incoherence. On iPhone.

So it doesn't matter how hard you work, you'll be stuck at that level.

i agreed with you Bertie up till your last sentence - the one above.

Some people will get out of the low paid jobs.

Some people won't due to any number of circumstances ,but lets not let that get in the way of the usual Its easy to get a job rantings on MN

Depends what kind of work you're doing through the agency. Manual labourers and cleaners don't tend to get those opportunities.

I want to know what happens to those people who cannot work these hours for whatever reasons.

Do they just just get kicked out for failure to pay rent and then starve due to no income at all.

I really hope someone can answer this

but it some people do get jobs, then the country will be better off & then we can invest in more training etc. for the rest.

why might they not be able to work those hours?

How on earth will the country be better of?

Young teens will be coming home to empty houses, a whole generation of latch key kids.

How is that going to improve the country?

Training for what exactly? theres no bloody industry in this country any more

Graduates struggle to get jobs ,do you not know theres high unemployment atm?

Childcare affordability. Unable to find those hours.

DH works 48hrs a week, I work 20hrs. I couldn't work anymore. We have no family we can use as childcare. We cannot afford childcare during school hols or for dd2 who is only one. Atm dh walks in the door, I walk out to go to the work. I am not complaining. We choose to have our two children. But I do not know where the extra hours would come from in the day for me to work more.

if more people get jobs, greater tax receipts, fewer benefit claimants, so the country is better off.

why might they not be able to work those hours?

For the reasons I just stated Tillymint.

Unable to find those hours (due to the high unemployment and employers preferring agency workers)

Unable to afford childcare.

Do you really need that question answering? Surely you can work that out yourself?