To think that you shouldn't be pissed off to work Xmas day just because you have children?

[kitya]

When your kids are 15 and over and you are in a job where unsociable hours are enough. I'm fuming that someone complained today that she was the only one with kids that was working Xmas. As if us singles don't have families we would love to be with. I'm so annoyed, she's a friend as well.

Christmas is for people of all ages.

I sometimes worked christmas days when I was youger, pre-dc.

It used to annoy me that colleagues with children got the day off if at all possible.

But then I was a self-absorbed twat

Wanting to enjoy christmas day with your loved ones is not the same as wanting to spend it with your children. It just isnt.

I do understand that some people who aren't bothered about Christmas themselves understandably just see it as more for the children. But for lots of people of all ages Christmas is an important time of year.

tbh although I enjoy it, I am not so bothered about it for myself - more for my kids. But they are nearly grown up and tbh if I worked xmas day but was still there at some point to give them their presents and a xmas dinner, I don't think they would be too bothered. They wouldn't care if xmas dinner was lunchtime, late evening or even the next day.

But when I was younger and childless, christmas was very important to my grandmother and she loved having me - her favourite GD with her on xmas day. I really wouldn't have wanted to miss that as it made her so happy and living a long way away would have mean't that working on xmas day, I wouldn't have been able to spend any of the day with her.

JeremyVile - What about devout Christians who want to go to xmas eve mass and church service on xmas day? Do you not think thats important?

Wanting to enjoy christmas day with your loved ones is not the same as wanting to spend it with your children. It just isnt.

I'm someone's child. They want to spend Christmas with me. You're right, not spending it with them isn't the same!

But don't the parents of the singlies get to spend Christmas with their children Jeremy?

it just is jeremy
This is an eternal debate had every year across the land
same contract, same pay, same responsibilities-same partaking in the working of christmas

I'm a GP not a consultant. I work in the out of hours service and have done so locally for 6 years. I do extra when the service needs it. In those 6 years people have happily filled all the Xmas day shifts. I imagine a time will come when I will offer but right now I don't. I do plenty over the holidays and any other bank holiday. I asked at interview and they said it was fine. I've been a doctor for over 15 years and I worked plenty of Xmas days until the last 6 years. If there was an emergency that required all hands to the pump I would consider helping out but that has never happened. I'm the first person they called last year when the service was struggling over the bank holiday after Xmas due to the number of flu cases. I was on maternity leave but I still went in. I don't feel in the least guilty for having one day that I just don't work.

Lesley33 - Someone has to work christmas day.

I would assume someone, for whom christmas is a deeply important religious date, would not be availiable/would not be in a job that required their presence on christmas day. Also it is not necessarily the case that because someone is religious they would not want to work on christmas day.

But yes, on the rare (comparative to the issue of parents) occasion that a devout christian is expected to work on christmas day, and was unhappy about doing so, I would hope that they would be able to find another member of staff who is happy to cover for them

All things being equal, having young children at home, imo, is the most important factor in deciding who works christmas day or not.

Before kids I worked in a job with shifts and happily worked Christmas so that more parents didn't have to, I could then drive to see family of friends

Now we have kids we have jobs that mean either dh or I HAVE TO work chrstmas eve and day. Would love to have just one year off but short of going onto labour I cant see a way round it.

Who are these devout Christians who have to go to both midnight mass and the Christmas day service? I have never heard of such a denomination. You either go to one or the other, not both. I doubt many churches would consider it a devout Christian attitude to make some parents work so you could go to two church services in a 24 hour period.

I think that people with young children (not a 15 year old) should get priority, because it would be impossible for many people to get childcare on Christmas day, and I doubt many of the childless people who think they should get the day off would then be happy if their neighbour then dropped a baby off on their doorstep because the neighbour had to go into work.

In fact this is all rather resonant of some story. Something about a couple and a baby that nobody wanted to accommodate the needs of and ended up sleeping in a stable?

Obviously not related to Christmas though, as Christmas has nothing to do with children.

Lesley "JeremyVile - What about devout Christians who want to go to xmas eve mass and church service on xmas day? Do you not think thats important?"
The whole reason for Midnight mass is for people who can't make Church on Christmas day. Most people only go to one service over Christmas (except for my family who are usually working it at our respective Churches).
I might object if I or someone was rostered so they couldn't make a single Christmas service, but as the first is at midnight, and then there are ones locally in bother the morning and afternoon I don't think anyone can complain (except the overworked clergy, at least Christmas is a Sunday this year, Saturdays are the worst).

Of course Christmas is for everyone and not just children. But it is different spending it with your children as opposed to your wider family and loved ones.

It should always be about fairness and to be honest when I was responsible for doing the off duty in the ward it wasnt that bad - it was either Christmas or New Year off, not both. There always seemed to be an even mix of people wanting Christmas off and work New Year and vice versa. and then some people wouldnt mind working both if they got extar money for it!

What is not fair is when someone like my DH works every Saturday and then had to work both - because they both fell on a Saturday last year.

I just don't understand this attitude that spending Christmas with a child trumps all other scenarios. What about the single adult whose parent has dementia and is unlikely to be able to recognise them next Christmas? Or whose sibling has a terminal illness and will probably die in the next few months? Or is Christmas just "not about them" because "it's all about children"?

As I said I am an aethist so don't really know about church services. But I have 1 friend who does go to midnight mass and a service on xmas day and I know it is important to her to go - she will turn down offers if it means she can't go to both. But she is retired, so working xmas day is not an issue for her.

Crazyspaniel - perhaps the fact the you're having to use fairly extreme examples is a clue?

Of course having children isnt the only good reason why someone would want to be off on christmas day.

But as I said before, all other things being equal having young children at home, imo, should be the most important factor in deciding who works christmas day and who doesnt.

Molly, if there was an emergancy you would consider helping out? goodness, surely if theres an emergancy you are obliged to help out, being a doctor and taking that oath and all. I dont know one person in the game, and Ive been at it more than 15 years, that would have to think twice if a colleague called them for help on Christmas day.

We arent allowed to request any annual leave over the festive two weeks which is terrible but they are so terrified of someone ringing in sick and having to pay agency fees.

Can you imagine if midwives with children (probably at least half of them) suddenly decided to stay at home Christmas day/night?

crazyspaniel - I never said it "trumps" it having young children - its just different, especially for the chidlren invovled.

"having young children at home, imo, should be the most important factor in deciding who works christmas day and who doesnt."

What a pile of tosswank.

I don't agree. I think it is fairest to decide at random. It's really not up to employers to decide who has the home life most worthy of Christmas at home.

"all other things being equal having young children at home, imo, should be the most important factor in deciding who works christmas day and who doesnt."

DoesntGiveAFig - why, thank you!

I agree that employers shouldn't have to make value judgements about whose home life is such that they deserve to have xmas off more. I think that way lies resentment.

Surely it is fairer to say you work either xmas day or new years eve. Lots of places do this and it seems to work out.

Trouble with starting random draws is, what about the people who already had it off last year? What if they get it off again. There is one person who's had it off six years running!! That makes my blood boil.

JeremyVile - I don't think they're particularly extreme examples, the parent with dementia scenario is very common, in fact my husband is going through this now with his mother, and had the same with his father before he passed away. It's quite conceivable that many of us will have to deal with this in the future. Is the colleague in this situation any less deserving that the parent who wants to spend Christmas with their child?

We can't request annual leave, but you can put in to have your name drawn out a hat
I've done 3 out of 4 Christmas days. This year I will be doing Christmas eve and day, boxing day, NYE and NYD. And the same for about the next 4 years as that's the way the rota falls!