To think that you shouldn't be pissed off to work Xmas day just because you have children?

[kitya]

When your kids are 15 and over and you are in a job where unsociable hours are enough. I'm fuming that someone complained today that she was the only one with kids that was working Xmas. As if us singles don't have families we would love to be with. I'm so annoyed, she's a friend as well.

callmemrs

Completely agree which is why I say it works for "us" Everyone is happy, I have a good relationship with all of the staff, everyone is always willing and happy. Probably because they see me going out on Xmas/New year etc too and not just sat in an office making them do it!!

I cant change the world, and I appreciate your point but the staff covering the clients we have is all I have control over. I dont have any control over the wider world. We all have a duty of care and contractable agreements to provide the support we do, the staff know that. If they have other issues such as disabled partners/old parents or any other caring responsibilities then that would also be up there with children. Likewise they are also able to put in flexible working requests just like those with children for their normal day to day employment.

would have hurt me deeply to think that my manager and colleagues "thought i was not a team player" the one christmas I dared to take off to spend with my terminally ill father signet...how dare I, eh?!

signet if you as an individual worker want to swap with someone with small kids so that they have christmas morning off, that's lovely, but it is NOT NICE to transcribe your PERSONAL OPINIONS about who should have priority onto your duties as a manager.. can you not see the line there at all?

So signet you'd quite happily say to a colleague who was devastated to be unable to have children, that because you had a family, she'd have to cover for you on Christmas Day?

Not at all grumplestilskin. I have actually put it to vote on numerous occasions to see if people would rather revert to a normal rolling rota system over christmas but the final say is people like the way it runs.

Kitya that completely sucks! The system on your ward is useless bloody hell -you're working christmas you shouldn't have to do new year too. To me the 3 big important days are CD, BD and new years day/new years eve night.

As a parent of a pre schooler I am gobsmacked about the arguments re. christmas being for children, I think it makes us as parents look really selfish TBH. Even pre DD christmas was a big thing for me and i'm sure it is for many non-parents too.

your system sounds fine and fair APART from the parents having priority bit, so I wouldn't vote for a normal rota either but still wouldn't be happy with the parents of under 16s having priority

Maybe I am coming from a different angle because my mum, bless her, has always been landed with the same rota. I remember her working lots of Christmasses and, guess what, we survived!! . Even now, if it doesnt fall on her day, she will work it for younger colleagues with young children despite the fact she has grandchildren. This year shes off!! and, Im working she said its a shame but, she understands I wont be home with her and my family, my brother coming over from Canada, because I had it off last year.

So those of you who think that parents should take priority, fast forward 20 year and your now adult DCs without children are forced to work CD as parents without DC get priority. They live too far away to come travel to you and back to work, so they see no-one at all over Christmas - would you really feel that this was fair?

No I wouldnt..... At the end of the day I can only speak for my circumstances and my team.

My personal opinions are just that personal and nothing to do with my role as a manager. My personal opinions come from when I wasnt a manager.

I wouldnt expect anyone to cover for me on Christmas day, as already stated I work Christmas day!!!!!

grumplestilskin No...as signet said if someone was on the rota for xmas day that did have a small child ,and say someone that didnt have a child was off, i would expect them to swop as priority should be given to those with small children.

Signet I am so with you on this.Most staff with children where i work want xmas day off and dont mind working new year,and those that dont have kids prefer new year off and do not mind working xmas day.So it works well really.

exactly, its the people without kids that tend to do the most travelling over christmas to visit the family members with children or who are elderly or alone or just.... just because. Once you have kids you're semi off the hook for some of that as it is so the people without kids already carry a lot of the christmas burden, once you have kids its easier to say you'll stay put.. i.e. near your house.. so you can fit christmas in around shifts. Not so if you live in a house share miles from home

I hope you have absolutely no authority at work 2old2care.

It's not about trying to change the wider world signet- its about operating in a way which is fair and equitable to all. A newcomer into your company might find it very difficult to vote against a system which is long standing and where they feel that 'this is how it's been done forever'. And the danger of this sort of set up is that the company will fall into appointing people who just 'fit the mould' and who will agree with everyone else rather than being impartial. That's why it's important to see the wider context. And personally I would be bloody livid if I worked hard, behaved utterly professionally and then was viewed as 'not a team player' just because I didn't want to be treated unfairly at xmas

If people want to make their own arrangements to swap then fine. But there should definitely be no obligation or expectation.

People's family lives are private and nothing to do with employers or others who work in the same place.

"grumplestilskin No...as signet said if someone was on the rota for xmas day that did have a small child ,and say someone that didnt have a child was off, i would expect them to swop as priority should be given to those with small children."

well y'know what you shouldn't speak for others or make assumptions, everyone should have equal priority because if I was given x-mas day and people like you put pressure on a childless person who was a good days drive from home to swap with me I'ld be very unhappy about it and would report you if you name called them

not unhappy about having christmas day off of course, unhappy at someone being called selfish on my behalf!

Why on earth shouldn't people without children be expected to trade it in, just because they don't have kids?

Frankly, there are quite a lot of reasons why being at work on Christmas day could be rather more alluring than being in the Bosom Of One's Family, in any case .

,ike Ive said it works well amongst the current team, its a local agreement, staff know its a local agreement and they are all adult enough to say if they are not happy (they do about anything else!) They know contractually we dont have to mess about giving people options we could just put them on rolling rota.

The lasses currently employed without children are more than happy to work christmas and get new year off. Its not like its all day anyway as we split the longer shifts.

I take on board your point though callmemrs. Although we dont have a high staff turnover been a long time since we have any new staff. Might be one for me to bear in mind to take extra care checking new ones are happy with arrangement if not then it will have to be reviewed. Im quite happy for them to do the rota's themselves which most have done this year and its worked out quite well.

YABVVVVVVVVVVU. The difference between spoiling it for adult family members and children is that children are children. Fgs.

Employers who expect employees to work Christmas Day should be shot (apart from emergency services, hospital staff).

Signet - your system sounds like a very mature way of dealing with it, tbh, and if your team are happy then it's great!

I disagree with whoever said that it shouldn't be up to the employees to deal with what shift they want to work but the employers - says who? We also managed to deal with swapping our shifts around in a mature fashion by ourselves - FAR easier to do that than pissing off the rota manager by going whining to her about why we couldn't/didn't want to do whatever shift we'd been rota'd on to do.

Well i have heard enough....and still think some of you are bang out of order.Merry Christmas to all wherever you end up.

I think the problem with my place this year is a new manager. We have got along so far, happily, with the rule that if you worked it last year you have it off this year. Then, she goes and puts a memo out saying you can pick one day to have off. One bloody day. I still stand by that if you want New Years day off you should get the eve as well and, its mainly the young and childfree that want to do that.
Well, I am childfree but not young, I hate New year. I just thought that as I had Christmas off last year I shouldnt have the balls to ask for it again. Hence my crappy OD this year.

I live 300 miles away so one day off over the period would not work for me but, I still beleive those that have young children are local to work so they should have to work it if they are needed. They are mainly on nights anyway which is far better.

one day is a bit harsh kitya. What I tend to find is if they have young kids, then they want the christmas eve night and morning off on Xmas day, the older ones with older kids want the afternoon off, again the older ones and the males normally want boxing day off. The young ones normally want new year off. I think if you work xmas day you should get boxing day +1 off.

If you dont want to work new year I tend to group this together ie if you want to work new year you do new years eve and new years day (lets face it new years eve pointless being off if youre an early new year day!) If people request new year day off then they will only do a early new years eve.

That way everyone gets a decent gap. You cant really do much with one day can you?

Math, surely the workers that are expected to work Christmas day are emergency services!! I dont know anyone else that is. How would you feel if the majority of midwives decided they would rather be at home with their own children rather than bringing someone elses in to the world? It doesnt work in our industry. You sign up for it and that is that.