to start going to church and praying that DS gets a place at this school?

[ThoughtCriminal]

DS is only 2 but we have already decided which primary school we want him to go to. It is the best school around and although we live only 0.8 mile from the school we are outside the catchment area.

If the school is oversubscribed he will stand a better chance of getting in if a parent worships in a church in membership of Churches Together in Britain and Ireland.

I guess I'd better make a start and get him baptised! I have not attended church since Remembrance Sunday 2 years ago!

Has anyone else ever had to do this to get their DCs into a better school? How did it work out?

I have a genuine question: I read these getting a place in a certain school threads with horrified fascination and bewilderment. I live in Scotland, and maybe I being naieve (sp)/have been lucky/or its just where I live, but here and in other parts of Scotland, the children just go to , well, the nearest school. and that's that. We are Catholic and our village has a Catholic and a non-catholic primary, so our DCs went to the Catholic one. we didn't apply, we just turned up on registration day.Lots of non-catholic kids go to this school too and it doesn't seem to be a problem. when it came to secondary, the DCs allocated high school was the Catholic one in a nearby town, but as we didn't rate it standard-wise, we just applied to the nearest non-catholic one and they went there. So my question is, is it different in Scotland? I have never, ever had a conversation with any of my DC's friends mums (DCs now 21, 18 and 9) about "getting in" to a particular school. They just all seem to go to the local one.

We have grammar schools in our area , as well as faith schools and my local first school is C of E . I am an atheist and would never countenance lying to get my child in to a faith school . What an appalling example to set to children - just lie to get what you want , the ends justify the means , sod everybody else .The local first school accepts all children in the catchment area and is not noticeably religious at all despite being CofE . The secondary faith schools accept all faiths but require some evidence of worship . If you don't like the religious aspect of the schools why are you so keen to send your children there . Perhaps if more of the "faux" Christians sent their children to the local secular schools the results at these might improve . The first series of Rev on tv covered this topic very well , catch up with it if you can .

God knows and is watching you OP

Your local schools do not receive more applications than there are places purpleprudence, hence you can just "walk in".

As an example, this year's admissions figures for the four local state primary schools in my area are:

School 1
Applications received: 422
Places offered: 90

School 2
Applications: 515
Places: 60

School 3
Applications: 375
Places: 90

School 4
Applications: 416
Places: 60

So they have an oversubcription criteria...

Sorry meant dementedma

Hang on..you went to church before you had your child 2 years ago. I think that would be considered quite devout. You do have some seeds of faith.

People are drawn to the church by all sorts of personal events - weddings, death of a loved one, an illness, personal crisis and other life events. And they are all drawn by the hope that the church can help them in some way. And the start of a child's education is a life event like all the others that you want help with.

Go for it , see if you like it. If not, there's time for Plan B.

Havingkittens, as a not remotely religious person, I couldnt care less what people are. I did NOT say that either species was superior. Did I say that religious people are more academic? Where exactly? I was talking about the performance of schools.

As for the faith schools being "better", thats not me saying it either, its the hordes of non religious people going to great lengths to get their children in because THEY think they are better.

And indeed , in my area, they do out perform other schools. Its not just linked to location in presperous catchement areas, even in poorer areas the faith schools tend to turn in better results.

Is it not more sensible to try to figure out why? I dont know why faith schools tend to out perform other schools, neither do you. We have no way of knowing if the "faith aspect" plays a role or not, but since that would seem to be one of the main differences, then it just might be.

I do know that I when the time comes I will not be hypocritical enough to try to flannel my children into a faith school when they are of no faith.

Fair enough. That's the problem with the internet, it's very easy to misinterpret they way things are meant. I apologise.

I do agree that it's hypocritical to pretend to be religious to get into particular schools and I am very much in favour of letting children (and adults) make up their own mind on how they feel about religion without it being forced down their throats. I don't have any kids so far, but if I'm lucky enough to have a child I wouldn't send them to a faith school but I'd rather not have to take them to school miles away.

I am laughing at the fact that you refer to religious and non religious people as two different species.

No, dementedma has a point- having read this thread it does sem to be very different in Scotland.

As the schools here are now state-funded and NOT church funded, ANYONE can apply to a catholic school, and have their application considered on the basis of catchment area NOT on the basis of faith. We are catholic and my dds are at the local catholic school and there are a couple of non-catholics in their classes- not a problem, I only heard dd1 mention it as it is her First Communion year and a couple of children won't obviously be making theirs.

Here, in the West of Scotland, where sectarianism is rife, few protestants would seem to actually WANT to put their child in a catholic school. I sometimes wonder why someone who isn't catholic would want to put their dc in a catholic school (although a good friend of mine did it, and had no worries about it), as the whole learning experience is steeped in religion. My DH isn't catholic, and, despite being pretty laid-back about it all, and having the children baptised as babies, he sometimes finds the Catholic aspect of it a bit much. (Even as a catholic, I sometimes find it all a bit much!)

where did the OP say that she wasn't religious, she just said she wasn't a regular church goer. Surely its not very Christian to be so judgemental and offensive?

I also don't understand why they don't let more non-church going kids in, how else do they expect to be able to 'spread the word' to them? My dd goes to a cofe school ( there isn't a non cofe school anywhere near us). I have never taken her to church in her life, now she comes home telling me all about what Jesus did.

As for being a Christian, surely your morals and how you treat others is more important than what you do with your Sunday mornings?

MontsyMa Faith schools operate one form of selection - from my post below: "If you only take childen from families who can show up on time on a Sunday morning, and are prepared to do so from either committment to faith or to education then you preclude many of the children from the disorganised families with no committment to anything including the child's schooling."

This link demonstrates that faith schools have half the % of children on free school meals that community schools do

This is a brief report of research which demonstrates that better results of faith schools are due to forms of selection in admissions and that all schools with a degree of autonomy, including secular endowment schools, do better with a degree of autonomy in admissions processes and that the contribution of faith per se is negligible

Have a look at your local leage table and sort the results by the Value Added score. You will often find that while some faith schools do very well on results, their value added is relatively less strong. This supports the above findings.

I would question my commitment to wanting to spend coffee mornings, doing the cake stall, making the costumes for the christmas plays with a bunch of people who all Believe, when you don't. You are isolating yourself when you do this.

Your dc is young enough to cope with a move, even to take a downsize, in order to get him into a school where you think you will make friends and he will be able to go to tea with people who don't all say grace beforehand. Visualise, TC, visualise. See the light. :)

You think the OP is the only parent at the school who might not be a believer, realhousewife?

Not my experience. Everyone at DSs school seems to be there because its local, not because of the religious aspect. I find they are rather...normal...not getting on knees and playing every 5 mins, eg, or all turning and pointing like in invasion of the body snatchers at '..an unbeliever!..' lol.

I'm sure she would cope!

Not everyone who is trying to get their child into a faith school is a COMPLETE fraud, you know.
Ds1 is in a catholic school. Dh's family is catholic. I am not. And I told the priest this. But I actually really like going to church. I don't go every week admittedly.
Last night I signed ds1 up for holy communion. So I will be going every sunday for the next 6 months, plus 4 mondays, 4 wednesdays, and I think 6 saturdays aswell.
I think thats commitment enough, actually!!
I also do rosary prayers with ds1, on the days I don't wiork. He likes it and so do I.
And I am hoping that weekly attendance,for ds1's holy communion, for the next few months, will be enough to secure ds2 a place, as a sibling, when I apply for his place, for Sept 2013.

If it's that hard to get into, she would be the only non-christian - usually you have to have the word of the vicar and baptism ceritificates etc.

I've got nothing against people 'doing' religion, just pretending to do it is self-defeating IMO. Will you sign ds2 up for holy communion too and do the same thing?

(that last post was @ oblomov)

Of course.
Ds1 announces last night, that not only can he not wait to do holy communion, but that he wants to be an altar boy.

Our school had over 200 applicants- with 27 places. Lots of non-christians here though, so it dosent follow that only the devout get in...

That doesn't sound right Glitterkitty, unless the non-christians are SEN - what's the admissions policy?

SEN, siblings, regular worshipers, then locality.

Every year apparently 1 or 2 get in on locality- guess we were lucky as we had only been going for a year or so!