to start going to church and praying that DS gets a place at this school?

[ThoughtCriminal]

DS is only 2 but we have already decided which primary school we want him to go to. It is the best school around and although we live only 0.8 mile from the school we are outside the catchment area.

If the school is oversubscribed he will stand a better chance of getting in if a parent worships in a church in membership of Churches Together in Britain and Ireland.

I guess I'd better make a start and get him baptised! I have not attended church since Remembrance Sunday 2 years ago!

Has anyone else ever had to do this to get their DCs into a better school? How did it work out?

And OP - you're a hypocrite. Go to church to worship god or stay at home. What sort of lesson are you teaching your child about true spirituality? It stinks.

sharenicely naughty!
seriously, though, the church schools round here are good, but not necessarily better than the non-faith schools. Personally, though, whilst I could probably go through the motions of regular church attendance just to get a school place, once there I would be very uncomfortable with a) potentially taking a place away from a genuine believer and b) not agreeing with what was being taught.

I think it is grossly unfair that people who believe in fairy tales are, in some locations, entitled to a better education than more rational thinkers.

I find it grossly offensive that having a faith is apparently akin to believing in jack and the bloody beanstalk!

I agree that all schools should be equal, unfortunatly they aren't. And if I choose to want my DC's in a school that will also teach them about my faith its my choice, same as sending a child to a stiener school or similar. Learning about all religions has as much place in schools IMO as history or any other "cultural" learning as it teaches children about the world they live in.

I agree Mrstwinkle.

But sharenicely, it is not WHAT you believe that counts - it is what you you are SEEN to believe. My DS is 2. He probably does believe in fairytales! but what he believes in doesn't matter. It is what I do that is judged.

And sharenicely, if indoctrination means teaching him to live by the values of Jesus Christ, ie being nice to other people no matter who they are and where they come from then he's not going to be learning anything BAD, is he? Bring on the indoctrination, I say!

MrsTwinks but why should the taxpayers pay for your child to learn your faith at school? Shouldn't taxes go to teach all children the same basics? Your choice is not in fact equal to those who want to send their child to Steiner schools, because they have to pay and you do not.

YOu may think it's unfair for people like the OP to displace truly religious people from faith schools. But I think it's unfair that religious people get to displace local children from their local state-run school, just because of what they believe.

I think a 10% quota for religious-based admissions is a great idea.

I used to work shifts too so missed a Sunday morning service once a month - but they did evening services as well, and most churches seem to do more than one service on Sundays or in the week. I know plenty of (genuine) Christians who discuss this with their employers and can arrange their work around their Sunday services.

We couldn't get married in the church of our choosing without showing some commitment first. it was obvious we were only doing it to get married there but we jumped through the hoops and got the wedding we wanted. we now attend a different church and are applying to the church school. we jumped through the hoops and hope to get the school place we want.

you need to speak to the Head of the school you want. catchment area isn't everything as described above - our local church school governer's choose the kids, not the council according to where the kids live.

See Mrs Twinkle I do think that believing in god is the same as believing jack and the beanstalk is real, that's how preposterous it sounds to me! Sorry that you find that offensive.
Religion is for church not school, it's an unfair system.

thoughtcriminal no if you're ok with the religious side then do what you need to do to get him into that school. I don't blame you because (as you may have gathered) I don't think the system is fair.

Are you sure you wouldn't get in on catchment? It might be worth speaking to the head . My dc's attend a c of e school but to be honest there isn't a huge amount of church based teaching. Apart from in assemblies.
I am not a church goer and dc s arnt baptised. I don't remember ever being asked about religion on the form.

Morally wrong to pretend to be a Christian to get your child into a better school? Maybe. Morally wrong that in a largely secular and multi-faith society in the 20th century state funded education places can be chosen on church attendance? Certainly.

I'm afraid the 'taking a place away from a genuinely christian child' argument gets my goat. It's bloody unfair that anyone should have a largely state-funded place whether genuinely religious or pretend religious. It is perfectly possible to bring your child up within the christian faith without them attending a church school.

naturalbaby - I work my shifts around childcare, a big enough nightmare! And like you, I also know plenty of genuine Christians (in the TRUEST sense of the word) that choose to spend their Sunday in their local Wetherspoons or shopping in the Trafford Centre.

YABU

I don't agree with the fact that some faith schools are funded in a large part by public money, but no none-churchgoers have any chance whatsoever of getting in because of oversubscription. There were two extremely good Catholic primary schools where we used to live.

However, by doing what you are doing you are supporting that unfair system and doing so without the excuse of legitimate religious belief.

My DC attend a CofE school, obviously anyone can apply, but 3rd on criteria list is regular attendance for at least a year prior to application. While it would be fairly obvious to the Vicar (who is also on board of admissions) why you suddenly appeared once a month, he would still fill in the relevant forms, therfore putting you higher up the list.

However, I thing YABU, if you aren't religious (and maybe you have stated you on somewhere in thread, but haven't read it all, sorry) then you should apply and hope for the best. My SIL got DN into her local church school, not sure if it's CofE or Catholic, but all she does outside of school is tell him it's all a load of shit, and that God isn't real, only 'idiots' believe in him!!!

"live by the values of Jesus Christ, ie being nice to other people no matter who they are and where they come from"

Does that include allowing them access to superior/better funded levels of education?

I am with sharenicely on the preposterous nature of religion. Who is to say it's not all a made up story like any other?

And calling someone "naughty" for having this opinion amuses and irritates me in equal measure.

BUT if I were to believe in religion I would definitely say that the person who spends their Sundays looking after disabled people is behaving in a much more "christian" way than those going to church and making a big show of how righteous they are.

Well said, HavingKittens.

Where in the Bible does it say "and lo, God did decree that those who worship him every Sunday morning at 10.30am will be able to go to the school with the swimming pool and the shiny new minibus".

Or did I miss that bit? Didn't go to Sunday School but read the Bible extensively for the good stories.

As an atheist who's DDs have no choice, but to attend a CofE school (the nearest three all are), I think your free to play the system any way you like.
Just remember the 11th commandment "though shall not be found out"
Personally I don't think it matters at all exactly what you believe as long as you contribute to the life of the church and the school. The Anglican church is very broad, to the point that some theologians debate whether you even need to believe in an external god at all so long as you follow the moral code of the bible.

Thou shall not be found out
Great favourite of my dear biology teacher when plotting ignoring the latest dictat from the head.

As long as the state helps fund these faith schools I say go for it, it would only be if the schools were entirely funded by the church would you be in the wrong.

going to church and making a big show of how righteous they are

Because that's the only reason people go to mass isn't it? FFS.

I like the idea of educational equality. It's very timely now my catholic daughter is finally deemed good enough to marry the heir to the throne. Hurrah for progress. WooHoo!! As for faith schools being full of middle class well educated pushy parents, certainly not the case in catholic schools. Catholicism in the UK up until quite recently was generally prevalent amongst poorer communities. Our local school is required to keep a certain number of places vacant in the school for traveller children who may or may not drift in and out during the school year. The idea that all faith schools are marvellous schools full of Oxbridge candidates and all secular schools are failing and full of drug addicts and teenage mothers is a bit of myth that somehow keeps perpetuating. I'm sure if the statistics were analysed properly there'd be very little to choose between them. As someone said, read about all the schools in the area, find about their admissions criteria, then arrange to visit the school. Go with the school that you feel comfortable with and, most importantly the one you think your child will be happiest in.

Our local non-faith school actually has a better Ofsted rating than the faith schools.

BUT the facilities and extra-curricular activities at the faith schools are so so so much better.

You can see where the church money makes a difference.

But then this is all so much worse at the moment because parents who would have normally sent their kids into the private sector for schooling can no longer afford to do so.

going to church and making a big show of how righteous they are

Because that's the only reason people go to mass isn't it? FFS.

My point was my annoyance of those judging others for not going to church when they may be helping others instead, or have a very valid reason for not being able to attend. It doesn't mean they don't pray or believe.

"Priority is given to applicants who were baptised with 6 months of birth (3 months for the ultra strict ones) to weed out the likes of yourself, op!
You're already too late."

This is almost certainly not true, unless the person who posted this comment knows which school you want to apply to.

The admission criteria for religious schools vary enormously, which is why it is of vital importance to read the criteria for the schools you are interested in rather than simply guessing at what the answer is.

It is not wrong to go to Church no matter what the reason. I would pray really hard though and also get involved in the church - because you might be up against some genuine Christians who are actively involved in their church and don't just pitch up once in a while in a hope to get their children into said school.

Also, whatever you do please don't get your child baptised if you don't believe it - for me that is the only thing that is really wrong. In my church they don't like baptising babies because the child has not made the decision for themselves and they see that being baptised is a conscious decision that a person makes when they decide to be a Christian.