"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

No, Squeaky, I haven't been a victim in real life. I think many women's lives are the same. Sexual aggression is something that is we contend with every day - from the builders who shout at us from scaffolding, to the men who stare rudely at our tits and arses, instead of our faces.

And do you know? It isn't until I reached my fifties, and became free of this restraint, that I realised how oppressive it had always been.

Surely I'm not the only woman who (when I was young) thought constantly about my safety from rape?

Onehandflapping - if you have lived your whole life in terror of being raped then I find that really sad.

But,surely, the cautions you describe taking are just part and parcel of modern life? I take (mostly) the same precautions as you - but a fear of rape isn't the reason.

I don't see the connection agent sorry.

I was replying directly to a comment made by a poster just above me on the thread.

I am 42 years old, and have never spent my life in fear. I have taken whatever precaution within my capabilities to avoid more dangerous situations, but I certainly have not felt like you do Flapping. :(

If a builder shouts at me from scaffolding I do not consider it sexual aggression. I either ignore it, or I would roll my eyes at them to indicate how immature I think they are.

If I was talking to a man and he was staring at my tits instead of looking at my face, I would simply say "oi, look at my mouth, not my cleavage when I am talking to you"..

It is only oppressive if you allow it to be oppressive in my opinion. In this country.

The internet has given sly and sad little people who havent got the bottle to open their gobs in real life, an outlet for their aggression

Succinctly put Squeakytoy!

Hansomeharry, you were replying to a post made to me by rycooler. who was saying the reason more people don't post in the feminist section is because their opinions are ridiculed rather than discussed.

I was pointing out the irony of you saying the blatenet guesstimate of 90% isn't evidence that people aren't posting in the section, when an example of discussion there was based on someone speculating on how much I know about femininsm.

Does that make sense?

I confuse myself 90% of the time sometimes

Surely I'm not the only woman who (when I was young) thought constantly about my safety from rape?

Erm...very seldom in my case. Took the obvious precautions at times but it just seemed like the sensible thing to do.

onehandflapping I had that when I was visibly pregnant - suddenly I wasn't getting the unwanted attention - even if it was just appraising looks - and it was lovely. I felt so much safer wandering around.

Ok so - lets accept that abuse on the internet is not confined to women (which no one has said) just different in flavour? Does anyone think that is worthy of discussion?

Why a different flavour?

Sexual aggression is something that is we contend with every day

No it isn't.
Some bloke scoping your tits really isn't "sexual aggression".
The idea that anyone would live a life in permanent fear of being raped is unfortunate and unusual and probably says more about the individual's neuroses than the realities of life as a woman.

I am the complete opposite to you onehandflapping - I was raised on a diet of Greer et al and have always defined myself as a feminist. But as I have grown older - and particularly having had sons - I recognise a toxic misandry at work.

Surely I'm not the only woman who (when I was young) thought constantly about my safety from rape?

No I haven't lived my life in fear, no do I or will I. I have very rarely felt unsafe - I could count on one hand the number of times I have felt like that.

I feel very sad for you onehand

(which no one has said)

Erm, apart from the woman in the article in the OP, you mean?

I can't remember the last time I had to contend with 'sexual aggression', but then I expect that would depend on who you choose to spend time with to a large extent.

I think it also depends on what you perceive to be "sexual aggression" too.

I've had times in my life when I've contended with sexual aggression, it just turned out I was more aggressive than they were.

I totally agree with you noblegiraffe, when you say living in such permanent fear is more to do with the individual than it being a widespread phenomenon.

I find it a bit of a weak argument to insinuate that the permanent fear some women feel has been manipulated by men to keep women 'in their place' and away from subjects like politics.

It's worse than a David Icke conspiracy theory, that so many men could all have the same unspoken aim to threaten sexual violence to any woman they find talking in the public arena just isn't credible.

Unless the OP is suggesting they all get together in a dark forest somewhere to plot their next step in oppressing womankind?

That's where DH has been going when he said he's popping down the shops...

I would call my self a feminist too. Just not a radical, nor a particularly well-read one.

However, I recognise how many decisions I have made in my life to preserve my personal safety, where a man would have had the freedom to make a different one.

Surely I'm not the only one who's got a late night taxi rather than risk walking? Or avoided walking along lonely roads through industrial estates, or woods?

My sons walk home from parties across the field (we live in a village). Can I tell my daughter that she can do this too?

Really?

field fields

how many times have you ever actually wanted to walk through woods or industrial estates alone at night though?

we live in a village

so you make the assumption that the village is free of muggers / violent attackers / other drunk post party males looking for a fight, but probably home to rapists? Statistically thats one odd village.

I can see what you are saying Flapping, but that is just common sense. It shouldnt take over your life.

To me, the things you mentioned are things that I would do automatically, and perhaps it is just the way you worded it that made it sounds as though it was something that affects your everyday life.

Men are also at risk, and more men get killed on our streets than women. I am just watching the news right now as more flowers are laid where a teenager was stabbed to death last night.

If your daughter is with a friend she knows well and trusts, and isnt too bothered about cow pats, then yep by all means walk through the fields, just not alone, and I would say the same to a son too.

My DH wouldn't walk alone through an industrial estate at night. It's not because he fears being raped, but being attacked or mugged.

We all live in a world where it is sensible to take precautions against getting run over, getting attacked, getting burgled. It's a sad fact of life but not confined to women.

I need to say here, because it brought back the memory... me and a friend once took the short cut through the fields home from the nightclub (it was a bit out in the sticks, but close to my house)... and we were terrified... not from a living person.. but because half way across we remembered that the field usually had a bull in it. . We made it home, covered in cow shit and mud, shoes ruined, and vowed to take a cab after that.

That was the funny story....

Sadly another friend of ours not too long after this, (and I have posted about this before), decided to take the same short cut, on her own... because she couldnt be bothered to wait around for the taxi with us.

Her body was found the next day near the canal. :(

I was 18 then, and that has shaped the way I viewed my personal safety, but it has never stopped me from going to the places I want to go, I just make sure I keep my wits about me, and never left alone or with someone I didnt know.

Yanbu. Sad thread.

Your poor friend squeaky, I don't know how long ago it was, but do you think the general 'common sense' knowledge about getting home after a night out is used by more people these days?

Sad post Ninky.

I would say it is used more Zig, this was in the mid 80's and life in general did seem a lot safer back then, but we were younger and thought we knew it all too. Hindsight is always a marvellous thing as the saying goes.

The generation before us didnt have anywhere near as much choice, money, freedom, and as such I dont think the risks were as great, but by the mid 80's it was a time when teens went out more to clubs, which were springing up everywhere, drugs certainly became more easily available along with the rave culture.. and our parents were really not equipped with the wisdom that most of us on here are now with our own teenagers.