"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

My sons walk home from parties across the field (we live in a village). Can I tell my daughter that she can do this too?

Why not?

My ex-boyfriend's mother was raped in her own kitchen at 8 o'clock in the morning.
Stranger crime for women is actually quite uncommon - most women are raped or assaulted by people that are known to them.
Young blokes are far more likely to be on the receiving end of violence by a stranger.

Statistically your sons are at higher risk of injury from violence on a night out than your daughter.
The UK is a pretty safe place to live actually. But there are a lot of interest groups who derive significant political mileage from keeping people in a permastate of fear.

Statistically ( and I'm sure I'm right on this one ) a woman is more likely to be raped or murdered by someone she knows -

Xpost Esta - yep, men are at more risk from strangers.

Statistically yes, (80% I think), however that does not mean we should not avoid putting ourselves in the 20% risk bracket if we can help it. It would be of no comfort to me to know that statistically I had more chance of it happening to me by someone I knew, after the event either.

Absolutely Squeakytoy -

Squeaky, seperating "stranger" and "date" rape is dangerous. it leads to people justifying rape by saying things like "oh, she could have avoided it if..." It's not up to us to avoid being the victim of crimes. it's up to the perpetrators to stop commiting crimes.

god, we have this argument almost weekly on here.. and I will still not change my viewpoint.

Yes, it is up to us to put our own personal safety first. Nobody else will do that for us. Rapists and muggers will still be on the lookout for that 20%. If every woman does what she can to protect herself from the 20% risk of being attacked by a stranger, then it will reduce the number of potential victims.

No, rape is never justified, ever. But just because it is wrong, will not stop men from doing it.

You can put two signs up at the end of an alleyway.

For women put "a man has been spotted lurking in this area, do not walk down here alone at night"

For a potential rapist put "do not rape a woman, it is illegal"

Can someone tell me which one is likely to be the most effective in stopping a rape from happening in that alleyway?

Here we go again. From patronising to just keeping on stating the same old stuff. This is why I rarely go in the feminism topic, and should really just hide it.

I feel oppressed, not by my husband or the other males I come into contact with in my life, but from over zealous feminists.
Sad, but true.

A lot of debatable 'facts' in your very long copy and paste post there SGM.

But what do you think about the subject?

"Men use a variety of excuses to justify the act of rape."

Surely this should read "men WHO RAPE use a variety of excuses etc."

Most rapists may be men, but not all men are rapists.
The generic use of the term "men" to equate with all things evil and shit drives me up the wall.

WHAT victim blaming? WHERE?????????????????????

Well said, Esta3GG
Bitterness abounds, and when we disagree, we are automatically blaming the woman.
NO!
We are arguing the position of hating all men equally.

Phew - just kind of caught up here. Now forgive me if I am mistaken but squeakytoy's post up there ^ with the alley analogy - that seems to me eminently sensible and well thought out and yet nobody seems to have commented. Is that, maybe, because it IS well thought out, sensible and frankly inarguable?

As I understand it, the MN Feminist POV re rape is:

(i) all men are capable of/potential rapists (especially the ones you love most)...

(ii) ....all women have the right to go where they like, when they like, with who they like, wearing what they like, drinking what they like etc etc etc, and all these men should not rape them, because that is illegal.

(iii) But any woman who sees that (i) and (ii) are self-contradictory, dares takes precautions, or dares suggests women take precautions is a Handmaiden of the Patriarchy.

Knew that anyone disagreeing would be branded 'rape apologists' and trotted out somewhere along the thread..

Oh please. i live down an alleyway. should i just avoid my house? i need to go out after dark sometimes. should i have a male escort at those times? the last house i lived in could only be reached by walking through a field or down a country lane... no men were allowed near the place where i lived. what should i have done then?

we do not tell men when they can go out unaccompanied, so why does it seem acceptable to tell women this? do men never get raped? should we just all stay in after dark, regardless of gender, to be on the safe side?

Sorry, brain couldn't quite get the words out, but I agree with whatmeworry
What she said^^

I believe I have the right to go where I like, when I like, with who I like, wearing what I likem drinking what I like and I don't think anyone should rape me.

But I also think very few men are rapists and I am safe in the company I choose.

I wouldnt walk through the woods at night but that doesnt mean if I did I would "deserve" to be raped. I would be more worried about being murdered than raped tbh and that worry would be there if I was male or female.

I take precautions against being attacked in anyway - its not specific to rape and its not specific to being female. They are the same precautions my DH takes.

Squeaky Am a bit confused by your posts following your advice to onehandflapping - surely to be consistent your advice should really be that no she should not let her daughter walk across the field (either with a friend or not) and neither should she let her sons walk across the field because surely then they are putting themselves in the 20% risk bracket (well for the daughter being raped, possibly higher percentage risk for the sons being violently attacked) and that by doing that they are being arrogant and foolish to do so. Surely your advice for her children should be to curb their own freedoms and use 'common sense' to avoid being raped/attacked?

Let me unconfuse you.

Those 20% of women who are attacked are almost always ALONE.

My posts made it quite clear that I suggested her son or daughter walk home with someone else.

No curbing of freedom necessary.

for what it's worth, my first rapist was a family friend. my second was my fiancee at the time. so, yes. in my experience, I'm at less risk walking down an alleyway at 3.30am than I am being at home with a man I love. doesn't mean that i don't date, and avoid sex. it means I'm not going to listen to rape myths that will apparently protect me from rape. because they won't. the best thing we can do is challenge the level of entitlement that some men display, treat all victims equally, stop trotting out rape myths and teach our children about positive, enthusiastic consent.

So is it a myth that 20% of women are raped by strangers then... does it not happen?