"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

noble - does this blog which I linked to upthread make it any clearer why this is an issue worth exploring from an abuse of women pov?

Anyone who puts up a blog inviting comments on the internet is opening themselves up to abuse.

Women get abuse which includes abuse that is gender specific.
Men get abuse which includes abuse that is gender specific.

Black people get abuse that is race specific.
White people get abuse that is race specific.

Gay people get abuse that is sexuality specific...

You get the gist.....

Abuse is abuse.

Nobody is forced to write a blog. Nobody is forced to be outspoken and be a mouthpiece for any kind of movement. They choose to, and by doing so, should be fully aware that there are people who will not agree with their views, and there are some particularly nasty spiteful trolls who will give them abuse probably without even reading the articles that they have written.

In an ideal world, nobody should have to receive any sort of internet abuse, but so far, there is very little that can be done due to the nature of the internet being so anonymous.

It is not a problem just faced by women.

rycooler*@11:16 So women and men get threatened with death, but only* women are threatened with rape.

Forkful, here again is my post from Sunday

"noblegiraffe Sun 06-Nov-11 00:33:39
She also suggests that white, straight men can post their opinions on the internet without fear of abuse, which, as Dawkins demonstrates, is bollocks.

Perhaps if she wrote an article saying 'hey, lots of people get abuse thrown at them on the internet, but isn't it interesting how much of that aimed at women is specifically sexually threatening' she might have grounds for an interesting discussion."

I don't need it making any clearer why this is an issue worth exploring from an abuse of women pov because I have already suggested this three days ago.

Incidentally, I've been a target of misogynistic abuse online, so I know exactly what they're talking about. But certain people on here seem to want to challenge an enemy and so they picked up on me referring to abuse suffered by men (and I have explained why I did that without it being a 'what about the menz' comment) and decided that everything I say must be disputed. Even if to dispute it requires misinterpretation.

OFGS we're all on the same bloody page then.

I can quote ad tedium a load of posts which basically say, Yes men get abuse and threats, but women get a particular type of abuse and threats, can we discuss the whys and wherefores of that. Here are the testimonies of several people, not just LP who have experienced it.

Everyone else: that's bad.

jesus! Every single one of us thinks we've solved the thread unilaterally 700 posts ago.

I don't think everyone is on the same page. I think there are still some posters who believe that men get just as much gendered abuse as women and that people who write controversial articles on the internet have only got themselves to blame.

Everyone IS on the same page.

EVERYONE agrees that all abuse and threats are wrong

EVERYONE agrees that women get DIFFERENT abuse to men and that abuse if often gender specific abuse such as rape threats. Everyone agrees this is a bad thing.

NO ONE thinks the abuse women gets is worse or better than the abuse received by any other group but EVERY ONE agree it is different.

NO ONE has said men get just as much gendered abuse as women- only that they may get as much abuse, but it will be different abuse and is unlikely to be gender focused

NO ONE thinks people who write controversial articles on the internet have only got themselves to blame but many people think that there are a lot of twisted people who will send abuse to internet posters. Acknowleding that such abuse is likely is NOT the same as saying such abuse is deserved.

EVERYONE thinks the assertion in the article that white, middle class males can post on the internet without fear of ANY type of abuse is incorrect.

NO ONE is saying misogyny does not exist. Some people are saying it is not necessarily the root cause of the abuse, but when aimed at women is often the manifestation of the abuse / threats. NO ONE is disputing the mysoginsitc nature of the gender specific abuse.

I'm only one, but I agree with your whole post catgirl.

Shall I do it in calligraphy on good quality paper then get it framed to go on the threads wall?

Agree with Squeakytoy and catgirl.

Please AgentZ - I would like that :) I can barely type let alone do nice writing so that would be lovely. :)

Laurie Penny's article is all about misogyinistic abuse noblegiraffe.

So of course men don't suffer from it.

So why do you keep bringing them up? You've picked at one throw away line and gone at it and at it, whilst ignoring the whole point of the article. In case you've forgotten, here it is:

"You come to expect it, as a woman writer, particularly if you're political. You come to expect the vitriol, the insults, the death-threats.
After a while, the e-mails and tweets and comments containing graphic fantasies of how and where and with what kitchen implements certain pseudonymous people would like to assault you cease to be shocking and become merely an annoyance."

Where are the men receiving rape threats day after day merely because they voiced an opinion on the internet? If there are any they are dwarfed by the number of women facing them.

And here's where she acknowledges that all journalists including men, face abuse on the internet, but women that face misogyny too:

"No journalist worth reading expects zero criticism and the internet has made it easier for readers to critique and engage. This is to be welcomed and I have long felt that many more established columnists' complaints about the comments they receive spring, in part, from resentment at having their readers suddenly talk back. In my experience, however, the charges of stupidity, hypocrisy and poor personal hygiene which are a sure sign any columnist is at least upsetting the right people, come spiced with a large helping of violent misogyny."

So what are you arguing about? Penny is talking about violent misogyny that women journalists and writers on the internet face. Men don't face that, so why do you keep bringing them into this conversation?

thunder, go back and read the posts where I have already explained this at length and with quotes from the article. Then stop bugging me about it.

"NO ONE thinks people who write controversial articles on the internet have only got themselves to blame"

Well, Squeaky is doing a good impression:

"Anyone who puts up a blog inviting comments on the internet is opening themselves up to abuse.
......
Nobody is forced to write a blog. Nobody is forced to be outspoken and be a mouthpiece for any kind of movement. They choose to, and by doing so, should be fully aware that there are people who will not agree with their views, and there are some particularly nasty spiteful trolls who will give them abuse probably without even reading the articles that they have written."

SHOUTING doesn't make your opinion any stronger or factually correct CatGirl you know.

You must be a feminist, I hear they try to shout people down. Lyingwitch said so on this thread.

I'm reading your arguments and then I'm reading Laurie Penny's article, and what you say about it simply isn't true noblegiraffe. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

She was focussed on violent misogyny. You derailed that to talk about what happens to men.

I will say it again Thunder

Saying that such abuse is likely is not the same as saying it is deserved.

Yes I am a feminist - no I am not shouting, I am emphasising a word.

You are the one determined to argue, despite the fact that really we do all agree.

"If you wear a short skirt you're likely to get raped"

"If you post an opinion on the internet you're likely to be threatened with rape"

Do you see why there's a problem with that reasoning catgirl?

The correct response to abuse is that the abusers should stop, not "what did you expect?"

We don't agree, you're claiming that men face gender based attacks when they do nothing of the sort.

Is this the new way to win the argument, pretend that the people you've been arguing against agree with you?

PS if you want to emphasise words on the internet then use the bolding tool, with two asterisks at either end of the word.

Using caps is read as SHOUTING on the internet.

Mind you maybe you have all changed your minds and that this is an important issue for women. So are we all agreed that:

1. What Laurie Penny is talking about is violent misogyny
2. Which men aren't subject to
3. However the perpetrators are almost overwhelmingly men (particularly the people issuing rape threats)
4. This needs to stop
5. It's not necessary to have a conversation about violent misogyny directed at women, and keep saying "but things are bad for men too".

I think that about covers it.

"and what you say about it simply isn't true noblegiraffe"

Is this the same as when you accused me of inventing something from it which turned out to be a quote?

I have at NO point claimed that men face gender based attacks. Please stop mis-representing me. I don't know if it is deliberate or if you have problems understanding people, but this simply isn't something I have said at any point.

I do not understand your reasoning, I am not making a link between the 2 sentences you use. I suppose the author is - but the difference between the two sentences you use are

"If you wear a short skirt you are likely to get raped" - this is, as we all know and agree, simply untrue.

"If you post an opinion on the internet you're likely to be threatened with rape" - well the article is about how the author has found that as a woman this is sadly the case.

We all agree that by posting on the internet you are likely to get abuse.

We all agree that women are most likely to get gender specific abuse and rape threats.

No one is saying the correct response to abusers is "what did you expect"

I really, really do not understand your point.

I am not trying to win an argument, I don't think there IS any argument (expect in your head)

I hope that manouver worked AgentZ :)

I think I can sign up to that Thunderbolts.

Oh you're right catgirl, it was Squeaky who said that, but then again you're claiming that you're all in agreement so you must agree with her when she says this:

"Women get abuse which includes abuse that is gender specific.
Men get abuse which includes abuse that is gender specific."

I'm pleased that there isn't an argument - you'll agree with the five points in my post there.

Eleanor agrees with me. That's great - now we're all in agreement because I say we are.

End of thread.

Lovely.