"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

catgirl1976 All the posters I have seen (and just did an image search on google and they were the same too) have warned that carrying a knife makes you more likely to be victim of stabbing. That seems to me to be sensible - is that what you mean? Not analogous to advising people to keep out of alleyways or not walking alone obviously because neither of those things are illegal in the first place.

Can't find any internet campaigns aimed at young men needing to be accompanied all the time or not walking alone at night etc. Have you got any examples please? Would be useful for school thanks.

No. I don't. That is my point!
Seems you missed it...

i can't tell you just how incredibly heartwarming it is to have so many internet pals so concerned about my safety, thinking of every little hazard that might befall me

truly your eye is on the sparrow etc etc

thanks all the same but i'd rather do it my way - see here

there are 30,000 deaths a year in the UK from hypothermia - here's one for you

menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1279852_police_cleared_in_probe_after_woman_dies_of_hypothermia

Jeanette Jackson, 47, collapsed and died after spending more than six hours on a friend's doorstep in Warrington in freezing conditions.

She had left for a night out after drinking at a friend's house on January 31, last year, but was told she was too drunk to get into the taxi.

Friends refused to let Ms Jackson back in, and called Cheshire Police after she damaged their front door.

Pissed, violent, and alone. But more than that - vunerable.

Can you find any examples aimed at young women needing to be accompanied all the time or not walking alone at night? I would think not.

There are loads of posters where I am urging young men not too drink too much. None aimed at girls though. I will try and find some for you.

There are loads, aimed at all people not to leave valuables on display - thats because doing that makes you more vulnerable to theft.

Julia
Then take it back to feminism topic, where you can all mutter eloquently about us 'trolls' who happen to disagree, without fear of a reasoned argument, with points from both sides.

Oh bollocks. Saying that all men are potential rapists is like saying all nursery workers are potential paedophiles

That was precisely my point, the logic just doesn't work.

Telling women to take care when out at night is advice, not an oppressive tool used by men to keep women inside at night.

Take it, don't take it, the world will still carry on turning.

If anything it's the governement trying to keep everyone off the streets at night, even things like public seats are designed so you can't kip on them.

That way, anyone out of the nice neat box of being in their home at night and subordinate to the range of electrical trickery (like MN ) will be noticed to be out of the ordinary.

Easier to keep control then.

Yes - sorry Whatmeworry - I was so gobsmacked by the level of misandry about that I took your irony at face value.

OK so a list of how to protect oneself is building:

Don't go out alone when it's cold and icy
Don't drink or be drunk (and definitely do not do this when in conjunction with anything else on the list)
Never be alone outside your own house or in other words, be accompanied at all times, unless you can predict you will NOT be attacked/raped/mugged or you are putting yourself at risk

Any more I should be aware of?

Oh I know one. Do not wear a necklace or a scarf. I've read women have been dragged back/strangled because they are wearing things round their neck.

But what do I do when I want to go out (with someone obviously) when it's icy and cold and I should really wear a scarf (helps against the hypothermia) but could also help me be attacked?

Like i said. i have never heard it trotted out, catgirl. and it's not on our local bus.

as for the dancing down the alleyway thing. again. i live down an alleyway. on my bad nights, i sit out there, with a cuppa and my ipod. never any problems there. as to the thong analogy, that puts rape as an animal instinct men Can?t control. I've slept in the same bed as a male friend in just my underwear. guess what. he didn't rape me. rape is not an animalistic instinct. to say it is says men have no control over their actions. do you really think men Can?t control their actions? ironic that, considering rape is about power and control.

Of course! This debate has no relevance anywhere other than the ghetto. That is kind of the point.

So is it a myth that 20% of women are raped by strangers then.

This sounds confused. It is not that 20% of women are raped by strangers, that would be an extraordinarily high number. But of women who are raped, it is a minority of them who are raped by strangers (if we go with the 20% figure, that's 1 in 5 rape victims, someone posted that the BCS figure for 2002 was actually 8% of rapes were by a stranger.) Most rapes are committed by a person that the victim knows.

squeakytoy Sat 05-Nov-11 23:16:37

The thing about this woman is, apart from being a hypocrite and part of the "rent a mob" at any protest going, she invites criticism by her inflammatory blogs and tweets and then milks them by writing her next half dozen or so articles based on the negative comments she has gained.

squeaskytoy - when you said "invites criticism" did you mean that she invites the comments/tweets/emails containing sexual violence.

Because if so then that is "victim blaming" - if not then please clarify.

I truly despair at the arrogance and complete defiance of some women who are so wrapped up in being staunch feminists, that they would rather risk their own personal safety simply to prove their point.

There is no difference between the safety advice given to men and women as far as I can see. Maybe it used to be (and I am sure it was) but not now. Perhaps those saying "oh girls are told not to drink too much and walk alone through dodgy areas but boys are not" are just older and going off what used to happen?

All I see is the same advice being given regardless of gender. I have never been told anything that a male counterpart hasn't. This "double standard" advice doesn't exist anymore as far as I can tell.

And of course most men would not rape a woman under any circumstances. Only a rapist would do that and you are much more likely to be raped at home by someone you know. We all know that and no one is saying any different.

Jesus wept forkful

How the fuck do you read "she invites criticism" and come away with "she invites e-mails containing sexual violence"

How twisted?

I give up - this is why I don't often read these threads.

Yes, within the bounds of common decency everyone has the right to walk anywhere and go about their business unhindered be that male, female, young, old, gay, straight, black, white, drunk, sober, early morning, late a night, in their home or in their place of work.

HOWEVER - if you witnessed the sorry state I witnessed last week - and yes dress plays a big part - of a very pissed, beyond pissed, "lady" in the pub, barely standing yelling at the top of her voice whilst wearing a very short skirt and very little in the way of undeware) "here we go! I can touch me toes, up me arse it goes""

frequent flashes of her thong caught between her labia did nothing for me - but I suspect there were some giving it the 'nudge, nudge' and enjoying the spectacle.

Fortunately she had a friend to drag her home.

She was vunerable. Her own fault for tipping copious amounts of alcohol down her own throat. But vunerable nevertheless.

But she also took no responsibility for her own safety. I agree she should have been safe, but if she hadnt had a marginally less pissed mate, she very well might not have been.

And I await those who say its her right to get stocious and flash her flange at everyone, whether they want to see it or not.

Oh squeaky, your concern is touching, but i already have a mum, and tbh i don't think she worries half as much as you do

on the other hand think of how fabbo you'll feel telling me i brought it it on myself if anything does happen

you do seem the 'i told you so' type

No forkful, I said "she invites criticism" meaning she invites criticism.

I did not mention any particular comments.

She is a writer who writes articles that are designed to invoke a flurry of attention, much like Liz Jones, Jan Moir, and many others of a similar ilk.

She knows that some people will compliment her, and others will not be quite so supportive.

She is a 25yo who knows exactly how the internet works.

squeaky Is that really how you view your friend that you lost? Arrogant and defiant? Or was she just stupid? God how awful for her parents and family, to have lost a daughter in that way and then to have to deal with people viewing her as arrogant and defiant (defying who?) because she walked home alone. Horrible.

I am not concerned about you Chibi, nor am I worried about you. Your attitude is however very typical and unsurprising, and one of the reasons why I find feminism so bloody offputting.

Squeaky, i still wish to know. i have to walk down an alleyway to get to my house. should i have a male escort? cars can't get down there. if i go out drinking with my male friend, should i expect him to go four miles out of his way to make sure I'm not raped? should i get a taxi for the five minute walk from one of the other pubs i use to my house?

No Party, and I find your manipulation of different posts in different contexts to be in extremely poor taste too.

My friend was 18.. she was naive, and over-confident, and drunk. If she had been sober she would have been the first to think twice before doing what she did.

Lucy, do whatever you want, its your life, your choice. :)