"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

Ah ok thanks for unconfusing me squeaky - so to avoid being in the 20% risk bracket everyone, regardless of gender, should be accompanied at all times.

you should also disguise the fact that you have a vagina, because this is analagous to flashing round expensive items in public, or leaving a window open/door unlocked

i favour a fiat punto disguise, although i have been known to go out as a pillarbox.

accompanied at all times by my phalanx of bodyguards obv.

no Party, not at all times, but at times when it is more likely that you would be in danger, of many things, not just rape.

Mugging... falling over and knocking yourself out and dying of hypothermia.. when there are not likely to be many people around to help you if you get into trouble..

Rape isnt the only danger that people are vulnerable to.

Ah yes falling over, knocking yourself out and dying of hypothermia in a place where there aren't people around- that's like, what, the third leading cause of death for women 25-45 if i'm not mistaken

I know so many women who have died like that, chibi... wait... i Can?t name even one...

squeaky Okay so no need to be accompanied at all times - just those times when you can predict a rapist/mugger/attacker is around - or in the case of hypothermia - when its a bit icy and cold. I must admit I can usually tell when its icy or cold so I should be ok to get someone to accompany me on the hypothermia front but I must admit I find it really hard to predict precisely when I am going to be raped or mugged or attacked in any way. How do you tell?

I think "try to avoid situations where you are vulnerable" is sensible advice for everyone. Male or female. It has nothing to do with rape. It is common sense.

i find the ford escort much more efficient...

Catgirl, but that advice never gets trotted out to men. not that I've heard...

Are there any men who are not potential rapists?

catgirl1976 I would agree but what are those situations? When are you vulnerable? For that to be good or sensible advice for anyone trying to avoid being a victim (of anything) we need to be able to predict when those situations are?

According to the British Crime Survey of 2002 "stranger rape" accounted for 8% of rapes. "Current partner" rape accounted for 45%.
55% of rapes happened in the victim's own home.

on the one hand, this sort of thing is really shitty and possibly triggering

On the other hand it is also so absurdly stoopid as to almost be funny

i mean can you hear yourself? hypothermia- behave!

Well you must have very bad hearing lucy. Every mother I know tells her son not to put themselves in situations where they are vulnerable. Every bus I get on has posters advising young men of staying safe. There are internet campaigns all over the place and every nightclub I go in seems to have posters to this effect.

Given just how vulnerable young men are these days, sadly especially to knife crime it's a major issue. And it is high profile.

I can't understand how you haven't heard or seen this. It's everywhere.

I think the original point and what this discussion has turned into are two parts of the same the thing. It seems that in real life and online many people think you shouldn't draw attention to yourself/ put yourself in a position where attention can be drawn to you in order to avoid rape threats/ sexual assault. I think taking the emphasis off the perpetrator isn't helping anyone and isn't stopping rape or online abuse so perhaps we should try something new.

I'm of the opinion that it would be much safer if there were more people out and about and down dark alleyways who weren't predatory.

No more reasoned debate, just silly jokes to back up your arguments 'Ladies'?

Wait, stop the press, you have converted me!

I shall start glaring suspiciously at every man I meet!
All while dancing down alleyways wearing a thong bikini, chanting I'm only at a 20% chance of risk as I don't know you!'

(I hate that I have sunk to your level, but honestly.)

Lucy and Chibi.. be as complacent and blase as you like. I think if you bother to do some research you might find that falls and the resulting death from them while drunk are quite common. But that doesnt actually come within the remit of being able to blame it on a man.

Do you think seeing a woman in a thong would make a man, any old man into a rapist, knickers?

It is so harmful to tell women they'll be safe as long as they xyz when usually the xyz is either impossible or expensive, and/or could put them at more risk.

No, you don't tell them they will be safe, you tell them that xyz is more/less likely statistically to lead to a rape and let them make informed decisions. Very few things in this life are 100% guaranteed

But surely the corollary position is even worse - ie because we can't definitively say xyz will not lead to a rape in 100% of cases, it's better to say nothing instead and demand that men (who are all ptentual rapists, remember) don't rape.

Its just about common sense IMO, "try and avoid situations where you are vulnerable" is a damn good starting point.

I don't drink, thanks all the same. i might slip on a banana skin though - is this more or less likely to kill me than being hit by falling space detritus do you think?

The implication that the name Eleanor was being used for nefarious reasons was the cause of my slightly snippy response. This thread follows well-worn patterns of attempts to undermine any feminist making any feminist argument. No doubt there are lots of forums (fora?) where we can debate internet abuse directed to all sorts of people and groups, but the OP drew attention to abuse and threats made to women. This is in itself evidence of the crazed self-obsession of feminists. The outrageous self-centred arrogance of actually discussing something that affects women. Of course, this debate must be stopped. At the very least, it should focus on controlling the behaviour of the women, not that of the trolls.

demand that men (who are all ptentual rapists, remember) don't rape

Oh bollocks. Saying that all men are potential rapists is like saying all nursery workers are potential paedophiles.
A tiny tiny tiny percentage of men rape and yet their whole fucking gender is casually maligned.

Rycooler. from a physical point of view, no. from a mental point of view, yes. it's like the old "we're all capable of murder" thing. it's not saying we would murder given the chance, it's saying we have the ability but choose not to. hth