"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

i know i know

there i go, arrogantly and defiantly assuming that i am not a soldier in a warzone, behind enemy lines and behaving accordingly

and for assuming that if i am assaulted, it is akin to having a car mount the pavement i am walking on, not anticipatable, not my responsibility and not my fault

StewieGriffinsMomSun 06-Nov-11 18:55:19
"I mentioned tthe online stalking of MNers who post in the Feminism section have had over the last 6 months."

Was that the posters that got flamed on the Fem boards for posting their views, got seriously flamed with poersonal attacksgot called Troll, MRAs, rape apologists etc.

Spawned god knows how many threads.
and then the fem board called for a locked space?

because if it is its interesting to see that those posters have been advanced to "stalkers".

OK squeakytoy.

As there had been some mention of vicim blaming on this thread I thought I would have a read through and see whether there was anything which I'd like to be clarified.

The way I see it there is an OP about very explicit threats of sexual violence and then when I see women posting saying it's not a gendered/feminist issue and saying that she invites criticism it surprises me.

If I was finding this out for the first time I would be expressing etc.

Squeakytoy - what I think you have done is absolutely modified your behaviour following your friend's murder and it is entirely natural that you have done so. You/and many others don't actually see this as a restriction on your lives etc. It has become normal to always be accompanied etc.

I think that these threats of rape of female bloggers/journalists are now becoming normalised so much so that it is inhibiting free speech of women - so that they are limiting their activities.

I see these issues as being ENTIRELY CONNECTED.

I too am wary to walk unaccompanied in certain areas and am definitely scared of putting myself out there on the internet in an identifieable way.

My solution to this is to be involved with various bits of feminist activism.

Others seem to enjoy getting cross with feminists.

To get back to the original post slightly

I have just seen a page on facebook called

"I wish Michael Jackson was still alive just so he could rape Justin Bieber"

You can imagine the contents I am sure. Internet abuse is not just directed at women. Internet abuse with sexual / rape overtones is not just directed at women.

But my life is not restricted in any way. I drive on my own at night. I just keep the doors locked, and my handbag on the floor not the seat.

I walk the dog alone. I dont walk him alone on Wimbledon Common or other nearby open spaces as there are regular incidents of lone walkers being assaulted.

I go out and come home in a taxi, but I use a reputable taxi firm and know most of the drivers.

I dont see looking after my personal safety as being a restriction on my life in any way at all.

well, yes forkful, because if women restrict their own behaviour it means nobody else has to change their's and the world carries on unaffected.

catgirl1976 - do you or do you not believe that "Violence Against Women & Girls" is a specific problem in our society which requires a targetted approach covering many things starting with attitudes towards women.

NB holding such a few is NOT mutually exclusive with being concerned with violence in general and violence which men suffer.

There are examples quoted of male bloggers and journalists and they are saying that the abusive comments/disagreements they receive are totally different.

Boney, why are people more worried about being accused of being a rape apologist than the rape culture we live in?

And BTW Facebook are shit at deleting hate speech of any kind directed at any gender.

catgirl1976 It's quite interesting searching for these campaigns online!

"Can you find any examples aimed at young women needing to be accompanied all the time or not walking alone at night? I would think not."

Dorset Police have a campaign on at the moment - one poster says Who's Walking you Home? In most rape cases women know their attacker and another poster says Who's walking you home? Stay with friends and make sure you get home safely. So examples of both the situations you suggested it wasn't possible to find.

www.dorset.police.uk/Default.aspx?page=5443

Very confusing because one suggests its better to be alone because you can't even trust your friends not to be rapists (am inferring men from the picture) and in the other poster it suggests that if you stay with (female from the picture) friends you will be safer. Which basically adds up to treat all men as potential rapists because even your male friends could rape you (which goes back to the 80% risk discussed on this thread).

"There are loads of posters where I am urging young men not too drink too much. None aimed at girls though. I will try and find some for you."

Any luck on finding any examples of the internet campaigns aimed at young men that are all over the place?

So if someone e-mails a female journalist telling her that her suckhole needs to be stopped with a cock to stop her talking, that's no more evidence of misogyny, than e-mailing a black journalist, telling him that he needs to get back to the cotton field, is evidence of racism then?

FFS she is a shlock jock, causing outrage is her trade and she then surfs it, and now she is wailing she is getting abuse - but they all get it. Anyone who posts on the 'Net will find someone prepared to call them names.

Hell, some fuckwit ona forum wanted to cut my balls off and stuff them down my throat. He (I assume it was a he) didn't realise I didn't have any... Is that misandry?

No, its the internet, and this article is just more of her technique, and it drives traffic and buzz which they all feed on.

'and then the fem board called for a locked space?'

The feminist board wanted to exclude anyone who didn't fit in with the general consensus of the board?

What a fucking disgrace.

No. I believe violence is a specific problem in our society which requires a holistic approach across the whole of society. There are many different types of violence and for example domestic violence and gang related violence clearly require different approaches but I do not think separating out violence by gender is useful or has value in terms of tackling it.

And catgirl I know men get sexually assaulted. By other men. It is their behaviour that needs to be controlled, not the behaviour of the rest of us.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the dorset police page you will find posters aimed at both men and women keeping safe

But I agree the messages on those posters are confused, muddled and I am surprised to see them

julia when have i said women need to restrict or modify their behaviour in order to reduce the chances of them being raped? Good luck finding that.

It's interesting though catgirl that out of those 9 posters on that page 6 are definitely aimed at women, 2 are aimed at men and 1 is ambiguous (can't tell if it's a bloke or a woman in the police car). So just taking Dorset Police's current campaign as a snapshot the majority of advice is aimed at women avoiding rape as opposed to men not raping. Would you agree?

Perhaps the internet campaigns you've seen and can link to rebalance things a bit.

Yep thought so. As you and (no doubt many others on this thread) don't agree with a campaign/activities designed to tackle Violence Against Women you're hardly likely to agree that there is a specific gendered issued with threats of sexual violence against female journalists/bloggers.

Mind you that AIBU for you isn't it. I wonder what the response would have been in In The News topic?

You must remember the recent tv advert where the man had had too much to drink, turned into a superhero, climbed the building to rescue the girls balloon, fell and died? That sort of campaign? They are common

I am surprised (as I said in my previous post) by the Dorset Police posters purring as much emphasis as they do on women staying safe rather than people staying safe. I do agree that is wrong.

BoneyBackJefferson - thanks for making it so clear that you don't believe SGM that posters were being stalked.

Was that the posters that got flamed on the Fem boards for posting their views, got seriously flamed with poersonal attacksgot called Troll, MRAs, rape apologists etc. -

That attitude = sympathy with the type (possibly the actual) people who are making the sexually abusive comments on less moderated sights.

Squeaky Apologies - I thought you bought the loss of your friend up on this thread as an example of how someone who was accompanied by a friend didn't get murdered and how someone who was alone did get murdered and therefore that was why your advice was to not be alone - which led me to conclude that you thought that if she hadn't been alone she wouldn't have been murdered and that was why you and your friend survived.

well catgirl1976 if we don't separate out violence by gender then we get (more of) the fucking victim blaming posters that you agree are wrong.

These posters are not in line with the home office guidelines wrt to VAWG.

"You must remember the recent tv advert where the man had had too much to drink, turned into a superhero, climbed the building to rescue the girls balloon, fell and died? That sort of campaign? They are common"

I do. But that was about him not harming himself no? As opposed to being drunk and then someone else harming him and it being his fault?

What I would like to know is... IF the majority of rapes go unreported, how does anybody know what the statistics are anyway? By definition, I was date-raped, I didn't report it, so where am I?

Squeaktoy is right with her alleyway-post. You can go wherever you want, do whatever you want because it's your right - none of that will be a consolation to the women who do get raped in the alleyway scenario. You can't change a rapists behaviour but you can do all you can to safeguard yourself - if you choose to.

I lost my purse one night and started walking home after going clubbing. A car pulled alongside and it was the police. They asked me to jump in because they'd noticed a car following me... I was completely oblivious - and incredibly grateful. I took a risk walking home as was my right - and I'm so thankful that I didn't have the consequences of that.

I hate reading about the 'rape myths', they're completely irrelevant other than to reassure a victim that it wasn't their fault. So passive in the scenario that Squeaky posted.

But when have I ever said that this is about blame, or someone else harming you?

I have said that advice for staying safe is the same for men and women. I am not talking about blame or responsbility or being harmed by someone else. I am talking about ALL people being sensible by not putting themselves in a vulnerable situation. I am not limiting a vulnerable situation to ones where someone else might harm you.