To think that nurses who choose to strike over pensions will not get any sympathy from the general public??

[McQueasy]

Unison have voted to strike on the 30th, this means that nurses within that union have the choice to participate. As a result of this the NHS may have to operate as an 'emergency only' service for the day. Cancelling routine work, clinics, operations etc.

The governments pension proposals are ridiculous, in essence the average worker will pay between £50-£200 a month more towards their pension in what is realistically a levy. They will not see a penny of that when they retire (if they ever are allowed to retire as the age or retirement gets pushed back and back)

However, as operations, clinics and routine work is cancelled in an already stretched system, I cant help but think that public sympathy for this strike will be minimal.

purple if your fellow members vote for strike action will you strike? If you support the work that your union is doing then you must understand that they have fully considered the offers put to them so far and still recommend action.

I can tell you on the ward I work on the nurses are in a flap about striking and disrupting the ward and patients. But are furious about the pension changes if they do strike it will be with a heavy heart

Lets say this how it really is.

This is not really about the mast majority of nurses (or other public sector workers) wanting to go on strike. It is about maybe the top 1% of the whole of Unison plus their union reps (who are paid to nurse by the public purse but actually do nothing but union work) who are politically active and who have spotted an opportunity to exploit their members' unhappiness about pensions to have a strike. Its what union leaders dream of. Getting their members out on strike is how they flex their political muscles.

The members lose pay while on strike (which is already low pay) and once it is over with the leadership go back to £100k pay packets and expense account lunches. Its just labour supporting unions playing politics against the Coalition. They declared they intended to have a wave of strikes the minute the election was over and have been planning this form before the election.

Love Mollythemole's glib suggestion that if you can't cope with your job at 60+ you can just go and get one you can cope with. Because employers are so keen to give over-60s jobs....

Also, if workers retire later, there will be fewer jobs for young people; youth unemployment is high enough already.

YABU, I'm a nurse and I'll be striking. I work as a therapist in a specialist mental health team for young people. I'm so disillusioned, angry and disaffected by my job at the moment the pensions thing is just one small part of the total absolute utter s**t we have to put up with. Mainly from our "clients" the families we work with.

We regularly get bullied, intimidated, harassed, threatened with complaints etc.etc. We work to a reduced waiting list we usually see people within 7 weeks and get told that isn't good enough, we get told to diagnose kids (by their families) with certain neurological conditions and if we don't we get complained about. We work like dogs, non stop and it's never ever good enough.

If I was to carry on working like this until I'm 68 or whatever I seriously think the stress would kill me. This is why I'm looking for part time lecturing work in my speciality now, even if I have a massive commute I have to get out of the NHS.

YANBU. I don't support the nurses striking at all.

They are just being played.

And TBH - if they cant see that a pension reduced from obscenely good to just eye-wateringly good still leaves then with an amazing pension, then they deserve everything they are about to get.

And as a private sector worker, my opinion counts, because I'm paying for the fucking things.

lassylass

LOL at 'amazing, eye-wateringly good pension'.

What do you mean by 'they deserve everything they are about to get'?

How do you work out that as a private sector worker you are 'paying for the fucking things'? By 'fucking things', I presume you mean public sector pensions, which the employees themselves contribute to? Do you mean the employer's contribution? If so, could I remind you that private sector workers are not unique in paying taxes?

Nursing is a job just like any other. It has good bits and shit bits and the world wont stop turning if you all just up and leave tomorrow. All that will happen is a lot of people who want to be nurses will get jobs, happily on less pay and smaller pensions.

Supply and demand.

The private sector pays for the public sector pensions via taxes. Yes you all make contributions, but those contributors are laughable in relation to the pension you will get at the end.

With increased contributions, you are still massively subsidised, and will be better off than most private sector pension holders.

That wouldn't be so much of a problem, except many private sector workers pay more into your pension through taxes, than they can afford to pay into their own. This is the fundamental unfairness that has to end.

"What do you mean by 'they deserve everything they are about to get'? "

The unions are lining themselves up for a solid thumping. The public are NOT behind them, however these MN leftie leaning public sector posting threads read out.

In 20 years time, the public sector gold plated pension as we know it today wont exist. They are unaffordable, unfair, and have no place in a competitive economy competing globally.

Lassylass do you realise how ill-informed you view is? Do you take everything you read in the papers at face value?

Public sector pensions are self funding. The employer's contribution is part of the remuneration package. How would you feel if your employer said 'your pay isn't comparable with the private sector (lower) because you get a good pension' then later on say 'oh actually, that pension we promised you because we pay you less isn't going to appear, but the salary we're not going to compensate your for the salary we didn't pay you' you'd be livid would you not?

As woolly says you're not the only one that pays taxes love.

morebeta again another view that appears to have been informed by the venomous British Press. I'm a trade union rep, not for Unison, but a smaller civil service union). I undertake my trade union duties alongside my day job (and in the evenings and weekends) and do not get a reduction in workload to do this.

We're not spoiling for a political fight, in fact we're not political in anyway, shape or form and do not contribute any funds to Labour. Without trade union representation many employees would have their basic employment rights seriously eroded. Currently my employer is seeking to prevent PG women going to antenatal appointments during office hours. This is written in our staff handbook, so whilst employees could take the employer to a tribunal over this we're working with the employer to revise their policy and bring it line with statute. We don't spar for fights and look to work with our employer to resolve problems before they even realise their potential to blow up in their faces,

Lassylass tell us what you understand 'gold plated' to mean.

Sorry part of that doesn't make sense, I meant '...and we're not going to compensate you for the salary we didn't pay you because of this'.

Teething baby = sleep depravation (not looking for sympathy just excusing my lack of care with postings).

"It has good bits and shit bits and the world wont stop turning if you all just up and leave tomorrow. All that will happen is a lot of people who want to be nurses will get jobs, happily on less pay and smaller pensions."

You don't actually believe that, do you?

I work for the NHS, but I'm not a nurse, I'm a support worker in Radiology. I move patients around, pushing beds and wheel chairs, sliding poorly immobile patients from beds to treatment tables and back again, shifting equipment, setting up scans and so on. My pension pack has just been sorted, I'll have to work til I'm 68 if I want to claim my "full" pension.

SIXTY EIGHT.

What the actual FUCK?????? Does anyone think that the average 68 year old could do what I do? Really?

Add to this the fact that Agenda for Change increased my working hours, without changing my annual salary, so I had to choose to either increase my working week, or, work the same hours for less money. Nice.

How many bankers have to do this? How many shop workers, IT consultants, MP's?

Seriously, YAB very U to think the nurses (and other Unison members) are not justified. We get shit-on endlessly within the NHS, but because traditionally medical staff don't strike, the general public never hears about it.

Sixty fucking eight.

green monkies, im a radiographer and will be striking too.

Its not just nurses that this is affecting its the majority of the NHS.

The career average principle is meant to mean that you can move into lower paid work when you aren't capable of performing at your current level, but that doesn't help when you are already at a lower level and the lower level jobs (less physical or requiring less brain power) have already been contracted out to Serco/capita etc).

Yes sixty fucking eight is ridiculous. I'm starting to think that this is a ploy to reduce the aging population burden by driving us all into an early grave,

Lassylass. you made my blood boil by reading your posts. what will happen if we all strike, well, who will look after the patients on that day, who will keep the ventilators going and giving the meds, and feeding the patients. who would treat the people going in to A&E.
there will not be thousands of new nhs workers to cover the people going on strike, it takes a minimum of 3 years to train for the majority of the jobs. and with the goverments cuts on higher education, i dont think a lot of people will be willing to go to university.
its badly paid as it, our wages have been frozen while all the other living costs carry on getting higher and now they expect us to pay an extra 50% a month towards our pensions, and work for longer.
how many 68 yr old people will be able to push beds through corridors and care for with the patients that are becoming icreasingly more obese.
oooo some ill informed people make me cross

lassylass "Nursing is a job just like any other. It has good bits and shit bits and the world wont stop turning if you all just up and leave tomorrow. All that will happen is a lot of people who want to be nurses will get jobs, happily on less pay and smaller pensions."

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. If this happens wards will fill up with barely qualified, inexperienced nurses and doctors. Do you want to be "cared" for by someone who has virtually no experience, or barely speaks your language? I work alongside some highly skilled foreign nurses and doctors, but if we end up with all our healthcare assistants and nurses and doctors coming from overseas agencies we will be in very deep shit. The cultural differences and language barriers alone will make the kind of patient care we expect a thing of the past.

Don't underestimate the value of experienced staff. I've seen experienced nurses diagnose things that newly qualified doctors have missed. I myself have spotted allergy information on a patients notes that a young ward doctor didn't know was relevant. If all the staff with experience leave, or get sacked for striking (there is some very threatening small print in our contracts which makes striking have potentially serious consequences) patients will die because they won't get the care they need.

worely, um, yes, I know. I work for the NHS too....... (I was kinda making that point)

lol i know, i was aiming that at you, i was agreeing with you
people seem to think its just nurses when its not! (although people think rads are nurses but thats anomther moan ) they dont see the rest of the people behind the scenes it will be affecting

ffs i meant i wasnt aiming that at you,

Oh right, sorry worley, it seems we are both guilty of not being clear.

I need more coffee.....

Nurses out there.... you have my support.

Lassylass... words fail me. (Shakes head sadly that there really are people who think like this.)