A bit out there but AIBU in my opinion on Pub sector pensions/striking

[mrskeithlemon]

Ok, so I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a global recession, and that just because you chose to work in the public sector, it does not make you more important than private sector workers. Therefore I think the pension cuts are justified (armed forces aside) if we are to move on to a brighter future as a whole country. I think everybody has to suck up the fact that we are all affected by the recession and public sector or not, we are all going to take a hit

gordyslovesheep I am not saying they shouldn't but money doesn't actually grow on trees

Lots of people here don't seem to understand that there isn't one public sector pension scheme, there are different ones for different types of workers. So NHS, teachers, local government, armed forces - they are all different with different contribution rates and benefits.

And because peopel have called in the past for certain workers to be protected from pension changes, the worst one is the local government pension schemes which covers people like home helps, TA's, bin men, youth workers, etc.

Im private sector and pay has been frozen for three years now, and doubtful for 2012 increase. I get no company car, and scoff at the idea of 'private health insrance'. I did have a pension but had to stop contributing because i can no longer afford it. Thats the unfortunate reality for most of us in my company. Private sector is no better in fact imo q lot of us have a worse deal than public workers.

Then Again Its only us at the bottom suffering, that goes for both sectors. Shit falls down.

MillyR but not comparable to private sector workers, who these striking public sector workers seem to think do nothing of any value at all......??

no money goes into bonuses and profit ....

where businesses are struggling workers may opt for a pay freeze, reduction in hours etc - as WE HAVE DONE in the public sector - agreed but there is little excuse for treating workers badly long term

Local Government pension scheme retirement age is already 65. You can retire earlier on grounds of ill health, but in the local authorities I know thsi si very difficult to get. My mother was turned down as the Dr couldn't say with 100% certainty that she would never be able to work again - she didn't! People I know who have been retired on grounds of ill health have had progressive illnesses such as MS.

The big problem is that public sector pensions haven't been updated to allow for the fact that people live a lot longer now.

With a private sector pension you buy an anuity with your pension pot. The company supplying the annuity makes a decision (using the latest information and actuarial tables) about how long you are likely to live and makes an offer based on that. In simple terms you have £1000 in your pot and you are likely to live 20 years. That equals £50 a year.

With public sector pensions the amount paid is fixed. For as long as the pensioner lives, rising with an inflation or cost of living index. The pension rules haven't been updated for years so that the pension was fixed at £50 a year when you were likely to live for 15 years but you are now likely to live for 20 years so that's an extra £250. Scale it up to the sort of sums involved and the number of people involved and the nation is very quickly looking at a shortfall unless something changes.

Some of the changes are fair - like the career average calculations. That stops the situations I saw when I was in the NHS where senior nurses who had worked day shifts and no weekends for years suddenly went on permanent nights three years before retirement to boost their qualifying earnings for pension purposes.

DoingTheBestICan if your friend is working for the MOD then she is paying into a pension. Unless she has chosen not to - in which case she will not be receiving a civil service pension at all.

MrsLemon, yes I do think they are comparable! I was just answering the poster's comment about civil servants vs. the army.

The martyrdom within some NHS workers makes me laugh 'we do the most important job of all, looking after your sick/dying loved ones'.....seems you really care when you will strike leaving a skeleton of staff to care for these people

She does not pay into her pension & she will get a pension at the end,she has told me this herself,why would she lie?
She also gets an extra day off for some reason,forgive me if i'm wrong but it may be for the Queens bday??

I'll alert you mrslemon to your post at 11:05, when you said that

"it doesn't make anybody's job more important than another's"

So isn't it a bit of a contradiction when you compare a clerical worker at the council to a member of the armed forces?

I hate all this arguing over whose job is more important! By this thinking, the job of nurses is a triviality (as some of us could survive without them) when compared to farmers and fishermen (without whom we'd all starve to death).

My civil service pension scheme got revised some years back to take into account people living longer etc, and is deemed to be financially self-sufficient. There is therefore no reason to reduce the benefits further, and certainly not for people who have paid in and worked to certain expectations for 40 years and are about to retire.
We have said that if the Government wants to negotiate about reducing pensions for new joiners and debate our figures on the affordability of the current scheme, they are welcome to do so. They have refused to enter into any negotiations and just made announcements in newspapers instead.

FWIW my union is a small one that has never been on strike in its 100+ year history. We nearly went on strike over pensions 5 years ago and they had to seek legal advice on how to go about it! That was cancelled however when the then Govt was willing to talk and we agreed to pay more.
Hopefully this strike can be avoided but if not I'm willing to be on a picket line for the first time in my life.

mrskeithlemon - "you really care when you will strike leaving a skeleton of staff to care for these people"

I have to take issue with the above - at some point an individual has to decide how much lower their standard of living will get before they feel compelled or have to strike.

For each person that's different - but some people can't wait until they're working zero hours shifts, constantly varied working week, no pension, no parking on site, pay cuts - at some point you have to say no and demand your contracted pay and conditions.

There was a post on here a while ago when a nurse said that there was going to be no free parking for her at the hospital when previously there had been and she got slated. She worked variable shifts, no public transport in the middle of the night, free parking a mile away but again safety concerns because of middle of the night - and the REAL cost to her extra a month was going to be £60. It sounds small but some people just can't afford to suddenly lose £720 a year - they just can't.

MissTinaTeaspoon you should also note that armed forces were excluded from my original argument

DoingTheBestICan: I think your friend must have misspoken. MOD civil serants are members either the old civil service scheme or nuovos (depending on date of joining) and these both require contributions. They are however deducted at source, so members don't have to do anything to make the contributions: it's just a line on their pay slip.

Some bits of the civil service do indeed receive "privilege days" which are like additional Bank Holidays (about 1.5 days a year on too of leave allowance). I don't know why - probably some weird historical reason.

I'd like to know who these public sector workers are getting payrises. Because I certainly haven't and the last one was a couple of years ago - that was about 2%?

I don't think I'm special, I certainly don't have a problem with taking a pensions hit - I do have a problem with the manner in which this government is going about it.

So, as I pointed out, on one hand you are saying that we can't say one job is more important than another, but you can exempt a soldier from your argument? Therefore saying that they are more important than everyone else? You appear to have missed my point...

Edith how does it matter if it's deducted at source?

If you're a PAYE employee, your tax is deducted at source - it doesn't mean you don't pay tax? Same for pensions.

Would anyone from the public sector please tell us what percentage of their pay that they personally pay into their pensions and what percentage the government pay into it.
Until we have this information I do not think that we have enough information to have an informed opinion.

iggly: I agree, I mentioned it only as a possible source of confusion for your friend. For her statement cannot be accurate as there is no MOD civilian pensions scheme that does not require contributions from its members.

misstina you appear to have missed mine, I think the armed forces do a more important job than anyone, hence exempting them in my first post.

Iggly - Edith was referring to DoinTheBest's friend, who apparently doesn't pay into her pension yet will receive one. She's a civilian working with the RAF.

Service personnel don't pay into their pensions, but this friend is a civilian. Civilians don't afaik qualify for membership to service pensions. It's all a bit odd.

molly the information is here