A bit out there but AIBU in my opinion on Pub sector pensions/striking

[mrskeithlemon]

Ok, so I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a global recession, and that just because you chose to work in the public sector, it does not make you more important than private sector workers. Therefore I think the pension cuts are justified (armed forces aside) if we are to move on to a brighter future as a whole country. I think everybody has to suck up the fact that we are all affected by the recession and public sector or not, we are all going to take a hit

So let's pretend that you are still nursing in the NHS for a moment...

You have seen the real effects of the cuts. You are currently working with less members of staff per shift than you have in previous years. A recruitment freeze means that those that are leaving (and at rhyme moment that's a lot) are not being replaced. Instead you are sent staff from other areas who do not know the speciality that you work in and have to therefore be supported on top of your own workload. Budget cuts mean that sometimes there isn't enough equipment to go around. You haven't had a pay rise this year, and you won't next year, despite the cost of living increasing massively. You take all of this on the chin, because 'we're all in it together' after all . Then one day you get told that you are going to have to work longer, pay more into your pension and that it'll be worth less.

WWYD?

Answer honestly please!

Oh and if this is a public/private sector argument a few years ago the department I work for was put out for private tender. A similar level of service was quoted at 3 times the current cost, including on costs and pensions, so the idea was abandoned. Actually it turns out the public sector often do offer blooming amazing value for money.

At the moment obviously...stupid autocorrect!

There seems to be a massive and growing animosity between public and private sector workers.

I don't think it helps that public sector workers keep describing the public sector as if they all work in Trumpton and describe all private sector workers as if they go to work in a bank in a bowler hat.

It is completely unrealistic, as is this talk of how you deserve bigger pensions because the private sector gets private health care. Really? You think all these hairdressers and waitresses have private health care?

I don't know the ins and outs of the pension situation, but I was pretty shocked by how big the teacher's pensions were that the unions were complaining about. It was more that very many families with kids currently live on, so I don't know how it is justified as a pension for one person. I hope that the figures were hugely misleading and I will reserve all judgement until I come across an impartial explanation of the relative figures for private and public sector pensions.

The more sensible option (which will never happen) would be to get rid of all occupational pensions and put in place a fair state pension which everyone pays into in the same way.

MissTinaTeaspoon I would be upset yes, but at the same time I have seen many of my private sector friends suffering through the recession. I myself have been through 2 rounds of redundancy (saved twice) and it was scary, but understandable given the circumstances we were facing.

And the argument that we are living longer and therefore will draw our pensions for longer so need to pay more....it does not apply to shift workers, especially those who work nights including nurses, doctors, fire-fighters, Immigration and Customs etc

Anybody who moed from the pub sector to private sector would see for themselves - public sector get a much better deal with their pensions. Mine isn't given to me either, my works pension has changed too so i have chosen to pay in to a pension elsewhere rather than salary sacrifice

I dont think a divisive public versus private sector approach helps anyone to be honest and as a previous poster mentioned it should be decent pensions for all - it seems to be a typical Daily Mail view that all public sector workers are lazy and skiving and it should all be privatised. I dont even read it and those type of comments anymore as it just so upsets me, Im an NHS Nurse - who cant even afford to pay into the pension scheme as it is!

Its not a question about who does the more valuable job either, if people are unhappy with their conditions they should campaign to improve them - not try to bring other people down.

I have never said that public sector workers are lazy/skiving. I know a lot of public sector workers work damn hard and some slack, same as private sector.

How do we justify campaigning when companies are being hit by recession left right and centre? 'Oh boss I know you are making redundancies but please give me a payrise and a better pension' would be met with 'erm no, you are lucky to have a job, let alone benefits that come with it' in private sector

Civil Servants don't pay pensions apparently. Welsh Assembly Government staff have their pensions paid for them. I must admit, I thought that was very wrong.

YANBU to think that there has to be some adjustment to economic and demographic reality across society. The public sector pension issue has been ignored for decades. I don't think it has to be 'sucked up' by employees exactly - no-one likes change - but I think calm discussion and compromise should take precedence over industrial action...

Just because private sector pensions were / are:

Underfunded
Raided by the company management
Had their assets stolen by company owners (Maxwell, Rover etc)
Badly advised
Badly managed

does not mean the public sector pensions should be penalised.

It's fair enough that the public sector tries to get the best deal and is unhappy with the cuts, the private sector unions didn't give in without a fight either.

That said, I kinda see where the OP comes from. When I see people go on strike against the end of final salary pension schemes and pay freezes, I think, my company already has that in place and I don't see why they should be different. It's one thing to say 'it was agreed we would have X', but if nobody is standing up to pay for X, then what are the options?

Regarding armed forces, I don't see why they should be an exception either, a lot of people risk their lifes as part of their jobs. Truck drivers apparently have the highest death in service rate and they get to pay their own pensions.

'Oh boss I know you are making redundancies but please give me a payrise and a better pension'
Eh? Who's asking for a payrise and better pension? The three-year pay freeze has gone through (despite most private sector companies actually being back to giving pay rises, albeit at an average of 2%, which is below the rate of inflation). No one is asking for a "better" pension, merely for employers to stick to the contract they had with their staff. I think most of us also accept we'll work for longer (I knew I would have to anyway because my very lengthy training meant that I didn't start paying into my pension scheme until I was 30). What people are not happy about is paying more into a pension scheme that will be worse - and the suspicion that our contributions may well be siphoned off into debt reduction, rather than actually going into our pension pot.

Where have I said that public sector pensions should be penalised because of the state of private sector pensions?

Sorry Lying, but civil servants do pay into pensions.

I work in a shop part time hrs,my dh works in a factory doing 12 hr shifts as an engineer at a famous washing powder factory,it is very hard physical work & i very much doubt he will be able to carry on working these quick turnover shifts in his 50's/60's.

A couple of yrs ago they had their final salary pension took off them & a new deal was made that has effectively took a quarter of their pension,of course there was uproar about this as they have also had a less then inflation payrise.

We are struggling to be honest,because we earn just over the magic threshold we dont get anything except CB,heating costs have gone up,food has gone up,everything has gone up except wages.

I dont agree with the public sector striking,they are just having to face what the rest of us have to.

My friend works for RAF in a civilian role,she has her pension paid for her,why?

Maybe if everyone paid their fair share into the pot there would not need to be any changes.

Oh & not everyone in the private sector has a company car,gym membership,etc...

Do they, Iggly... I have a colleague who works in the Welsh Assembly Government who says that they don't. I did think it was odd. Thanks!

Crazyspaniel I think you will find another poster on here was complaining that they wont get a payrise this year or next despite the cost of living going up.....tighten your belts like everybody else has to. Yes the previous government fucked this countrys economy up royally, but we are all suffering and taking a hit, why are public sector so special?

Now reading DoingtheBestICan's post though.... my colleague may well be right, he doesn't pay.

Because those are the reason why most private sector pension schemes are failing / have failed.

If we're all in this together, why has executive pay gone up by so much?

This isn't about public sector workers being special, it's about honouring contracts.

The unions are negotiating - they're not rejecting every offer outright. There have already been changes to public sector pensions under labour - workers in the last 6-7 years don't have quite as good a deal as the older workers for example.

However the government are doing a good job of spinning it - but they make announcements before discussing them with the unions as if they're not optional or negotiable then claim they're negotiating? That's pretty poor form.

There is enough money in the civil service pension fund to meet every civil servant's pension obligations.

Reducing the pension is about stealing pure and simple.

regarding 'big' pensions - well the alternative is more people needing pension credit ...

i voted yes and i don't even have a pension - can't afford one - have had no pay rise for 5 years, recruitment freeze means i am doing 3 times the work - tax credits cut - i am £200 plus a moth worse off - yay for being a fat cat public sector worker - oh and i will be unemployed next year aafter 18 years service thanks to goverment policy

Yes civil servants do pay - there's a website (civil service pensions?) which tells you about the various schemes.