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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how many times GPs get it wrong, and risk someones life? for the sake of funds??

272 replies

lisad123 · 02/11/2011 20:04

Had a call from friend earlier today to say another friend of ours has a tumor on her spine. GP has fobbed her off for ages :(
Same happened with dh, and my gp misdiagonised gallstones and sadly i ended up very unwell.
DD2 we were told had a virus but instead she had pnemonia, and so spent a week in hospital.

Cancer seems to be the thing they miss most often, especially if you dont fit target age ect.
I always feel GPs dont refer or do tests because of funding and people are dying, getting very unwell because of it.

OP posts:
Tianc · 03/11/2011 18:52

macdoodle you're losing the plot.

If you can show me which railings I need to chain myself to to save the NHS, I will do so, wheelchair and all. I care passionately about it, despite getting very little help from it myself.

And yes, I've experienced quite a few countries' health systems ? another reason I'm so fervid in my support of the NHS.

None of that makes me think it's a good idea that doctors at my surgery are so tired and stressed they repeatedly lose paperwork, misaddress things, and make continual prescription errors. And while I feel sorry for them as people, that doesn't solve the problem.

DazzleII · 03/11/2011 18:55

Yes, I suppose that's it - obviously you feel sorry for them as people, but really professionally they should be spending time campaigning for a better system, not drowning in day-to-day tasks.

eurochick · 03/11/2011 19:04

macdoodle I do have experience of other healthcare systems. I have lived in France and Belgium. I found both systems superior to ours, tbh.

I don't doubt there are good doctors here but the system is a mess. We have this culture about being grateful for it because it is "free" (it bloody well isn't - I support it through my taxes) and always cite the flawed US system as the alternative. Many other developed countries have alternatives that function better than the NHS and the US system but we never hear about them here.

I think the fact that GPs are gatekeepers to more specialist practitioners in our system is part of the problem. In Belgium, for example, when a kidney problem I had had before recurred I could go straight to see a urologist. I could just pick up the phone and book an appointment (that same day, incidentally). A specialist in that area is arguably more likely to pick up complications than a generalist. GPs are expected to know a huge amount. It's no wonder things get missed.

whostolemyname · 03/11/2011 19:09

My GP saved my life. I see from this thread not everyone is so luck, but just wanted to defend some of the goodun's.

quietlyafraid · 03/11/2011 20:20

The system works, the alternatives will undoubtedly be worse

Arhhhh isn't that what doctors said when the NHS formed? Its funny how history is easily forgotten and how resistant to even the mere suggestion of change within any big organisation is ALWAYS met with hostility and negativity.

Unfortunately, the NHS can't and shouldn't stay the same forever, and there is a need for changes in order for it to survive.

PacificDogwood · 03/11/2011 22:08

Random churning out of thoughts:

Yes, partnerships decide how many partners to take on, thereby dividing the 'pie' of the practices income in however many larger or smaller slices. However, there are statistics of what dr:patient ratio practices have, so you can see where a practice sits compared to others.
Having said that, a practice population consisting of more young, healthy, more affluent people will require less dr/nurse/insert HCP of choice than, say, a practice serving a deprived, older population.

And yes, doctors, like plumbers and lawyers and wedding planers can be greedy. I for one do NOT want to be put on any kind of pedestal because I fear I may well quite easily fall off.

You should expect the same level of professionalism, care, diligence etc etc from your dr as you'd expect from your... oh, I don't know, architect. If they get it wrong, rooves fall down. Rubbish comparism, I hope you get my drift.

Those of you who had good experiences of other countries' health care systems: I assume you were insured. I suppose it does come down to how we as a society chose to look after those most vulnerable. The NHS' philosophy is very much founded on a Public Health idea: the best possible health care for the largest number of people financed by a finite pot.
I have lived and worked in Germany and the US (I did not work as a dr there) and of course there are things that can be better there. But the costs, both human and financial are high.

Re complaints: there are robust systems in place to complain to your GP. You cannot be removed from a dr's list for complainig - who comes up with this stuff?
Much as no dr likes complaints, they are a necessary tool to improve things. Please do give feed-back; positive we love, particularly if it comes with chocolates attached Grin, negative will be looked into and issues addressed if need be. Are you aware that we do regular 'Significant Event Analysis' where near-misses, mistakes, system-failures are analysed and measures taken that the same problem should not arise again? Guess what, lots of meetings go into that, on top of management meetings (we are employers to our staff), palliative care meetings, educational meetings etc etc. Any other questions about long days??

What also stikes me in rereading (some) of this thread, is that the upsetting stories about 'it took 2 years to diagnose my DH/DC/DF' are not countered by all the many others that go something like this 'I was sure it was cancer, waiting for all my tests was horrible, my GP thought it was nothing, and in the end it did turn out to be nothing'.

Medicine is difficult, not the factual stuff, but because illnesses don't necessarily present as they 'should' according to a textbook. Being able to live with uncertainty is an important attribute of any dr. I am sure we can all think of cases were we thought 'This is cancer', all test are normal, the person gets worse, and guess what: a few months later the nasty gets found.

Re Shipman: he was a psychopath. And thank to him ALL drs have to spend a lot of time (their time as it will, rightly, not be taken away from patient-time) every fecking year proving that they are not bumping off patients by the hundreds. FFS. Btw, in Shipman's case, various drs from other practices had flagged up suspicious goings-on and were repeatedly ignored by the authorities. IMO, Shipman has been used as an excuse to further undermine and weaken General Practice.

Tianc, thank you for your concern for me: I did not make the NHS, I am not likely to personally break it, and I have a thick hide Grin.

DazzleII · 03/11/2011 22:44

Presumably you're serious about the chocolates?

Am I the only one not doing that?

PacificDogwood · 03/11/2011 22:55

You picked up on the chocolates in my post? Seriously?

Yes, I like chocolate. Sometimes patients hand some in to reception. They also bring home baking, biscuits, coffee for the staff room etc. All much appreciated by us all, none expected.

I can remember 1 box of chocolates I got personally - was in the last month or so.
I have had flowers x2; once for genuinely saving somebody's life (if you have to have a cardiac arrest, make sure you have it in the presence of a defibrillator), and once by a rather lonely old lady I had listened to on a house visit.

Any other gift related questions?

Oh, and the local Rotary Club has offered us a 'patient related donation' - we are considering a hearing aid loop.

DazzleII · 03/11/2011 22:57

Well, now I know what I've been doing wrong.

Grin

How big a hamper is required at Xmas?

DazzleII · 03/11/2011 22:57

Harrods?

Minus273 · 03/11/2011 22:58

I think quite often Drs deserve these treats, makes up in part for al the abuse they get.

I have only once seen someone barred from a practice for complaining and that was because his definition of complaining was when the practice manager said 'how can I help?' he knocked him out with a sucker punch. So not the complaint as such that got him barred.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2011 23:00

dazzle, are you insinuating that doctors (as a profession) are seriously open to bribery ?

Pacific give it up, really

you are wasting your time faced with ignorance like that

PacificDogwood · 03/11/2011 23:02

I shared my Roses with reception.

Harrod's hamper may find its way home, mind Grin.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2011 23:02

dazzle when next you or your loved ones require medical care, the professionals involved will do their best for you

despite your appalling attitude

that's how it works (thankfully, for people like you)

MidsomerM · 03/11/2011 23:08

Perfect post pacific, couldn't have put it better myself. And Dazzle, are you serious? Out of the whole post you pick up on the chocolate thing, and start wondering if you have to bribe your GP with chocolate? Are you joking or just not very perceptive?

AF you're right, common sense isn't going to prevail here is it!

Northernlurker · 03/11/2011 23:22

Pacific said 'Medicine is difficult, not the factual stuff, but because illnesses don't necessarily present as they 'should' according to a textbook. Being able to live with uncertainty is an important attribute of any dr.' Yes, absolutely right and that's something that often patients find hard to accept. I've heard one of our very experienced consultants talking to a patient and the patient was saying 'so that statistics are x so that means I have x months left?' The consultant replied 'No, not at all. I can tell you what will happen if I have 100 of you. I can say what outcome for 10 or 20 in that group but I can never ever say exactly what is going to happen to YOU'. A lot of the time though we want our doctors to say exactly what will happen to US. Never going to happen. They're doctors, they're not Gods (contrary to what some surgeons may think....Grin)

KinkyDoritoWithJingleBellsOn · 03/11/2011 23:33

I am sure we can all think of cases were we thought 'This is cancer', all test are normal, the person gets worse, and guess what: a few months later the nasty gets found.

As I've already said, this happened to me with DD. Except no tests were done as I was fobbed off. I can completely understand that it gets missed. The symptoms could be so many things. What grates is the complete derision I was treated with. They addressed me and dealt with DD like I was deluded. (I didn't for one second think she had cancer either, all I thought was something was very, very wrong.)

Maybe I should have made a complaint, but I honestly don't think it would change anything. Some of the doctors at my surgery are very arrogant.

However, and I say again, I would rather have an NHS than not and there are many medical professionals working within it who are absolutely fantastic. I'm also under no illusion - people like DD with Asperger's and now leukaemia would never get decent medical insurance that my family could afford under a private system. It strikes me that services like the American one are only designed to look after the occasionally ill. When people have serious illness or medical conditions, they inevitably find themselves facing huge medical bills because insurance won't cover them or they cannot get insurance. It is an awful state of affairs.

DazzleII · 04/11/2011 00:01

I genuinely didn't know that people routinely give chocolates and other things to GPs. I give teachers presents every year because it's talked about at the school gate; I didn't know the same was true of GPs. I will start doing it now; I wish I'd known about it earlier.

Thumbwitch · 04/11/2011 00:03

Hmm. It's rough, isn't it - most GPs will see hundreds of patients a month and may make mistakes with a few. But the few will be the ones who hound them, not the hundreds who are treated appropriately.

Referrals and tests all cost the practice money - and since the introduction of budgets for individual surgeries years ago, this causes issues.
Sometimes the symptoms aren't all that obvious - but sometimes they are and the GP is just a poor practitioner.

My brother nearly died of peritonitis after his GP missed appendicitis, because the "pain was in the wrong place" - well I'm sorry, he was a poor practitioner because even I knew that the pain could refer elsewhere (from watching Angels, remember that?)

My mother's life was saved by her GP insisting that she was blue-lighted into hospital immediately - burst diverticulum and acute peritonitis.

My niece's brain tumour was missed by more than one GP and the local hospital's paediatric ward - because she was under 2 and they kept suggesting teething, tonsilitis and ear infections, none of which made a lot of sense - the walk-in paediatric A&E at UCH picked up the problem and the MRI confirmed it - she was in surgery the next day to take the fluid pressure off her brain, and 2 days after that had the tumour removed in a 9h operation. Although it wasn't an invasive tumour as such, it was blocking her brain ventricles and she would have died from the blockage in a few weeks if it hadn't been found.

My dad's GP has kept right on top of his prostate cancer and Dad has had successful treatment for it, hoping that he will continue to be in remission but they are keeping a good watch on him.

One of my GPs failed signally to do anything about my transient vertigo by refusing to believe I had anything wrong with my neck as I was "too young for degenerative arthritis"; then I moved and the next one gave me a referral for physio (helped a little) and then to the ENT department (didn't help much at all) but also gave me a hint about neck and head trauma causing neurological symptoms. (Osteopath finally fixed it for me).

The system in the UK isn't perfect and is going to get worse - but you have it so much better there in that it is free at first point of contact; you might complain about prescription charges but try not having them covered at all and having to pay full whack for the drugs; ditto for ultrasound scans etc.

The system in Australia isn't all bad and I have had good treatment from my GP here - she listens to my concerns, she even did a blood test on DS because of my paranoia about his breathing, and my gynae agreed to do a blood test on me because of my paranoia about my breathing (different paranoias!).

All I would say is that if you are not happy with your GP's attitude or diagnosis, keep going back until they take you seriously or agree to do further investigation. I am angry at the missed leukaemia stories because that is generally pretty easy to diagnose - blood test, look at the blood film, there they are - I've seen some doozies in my time, sadly. BUt I don't know how bad it's going to get in the current climate - I do know that it isn't going to improve. :(

DazzleII · 04/11/2011 01:52

Apart from the giving of chocolates/gifts, there was nothing in Pacific's post that I didn't already know.

But I would still like to know whether patients who are the subject of Significant Event Analyses are given info about the outcome of them. And if the next of kin of dead patients whose cases are reviewed are informed of the outcome.

EttiKetti · 04/11/2011 04:56

I almost died due to GP error earlier this year, but I don't feel it was lack of funding, or hesitancy to spend said funds, more just slack practice. Not sure which is preferable Confused clearly neither should occur!

PacificDogwood · 04/11/2011 07:39

How I wish I had not mentioned the darn chocolates!
They are an occasional occurance and have nothing to with patient care.

Northernlurker · 04/11/2011 08:31

Dazzle - I can't speak for General Practice but in the hospital environment there is a growing practice of informing patients and relatives about adverse events. The culture is to be open and honest but that is a relatively recent change from something more like 'least said , soonest mended'. I attended a recent conference where a presentation was given about this issue by a charity that assists patients who have had medical negligence issues. Apparently they spend about half their time working with patients to accept that they haven't in fact been the victims of malpractice. Patients as a group overall anticipate a cover-up/mistakes even when none have occurred.

RoxyRobin · 04/11/2011 09:25

I don't think the odd box of Milk Tray can be said to constitute a bribe! I used to give my previous GP a good bottle of wine now and then because she had been so helpful. Wouldn't with my previous lot because I don't go very often and rarely see the same one twice.

Pacific, be glad it's just chocolates - my aunt had a patient who was a keen fisherman and every week he used to bring in some of his catch, including some dodgy shellfish. It used to stink the surgery out and she always had to throw it out but hadn't the heart to discourage him!

Thumbwitch · 04/11/2011 09:45

I took a box of Roses chocolates into my maternity unit after DS was born - they'd been really good to me.