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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be offended by this?

89 replies

CailinDana · 02/11/2011 09:05

My FIL is a racist. He would say he isn't but he is. To give background, I'm Irish, PILs (and DH of course) are English but they lived in Ireland for over 10 years when DH was little. We had the PILs to stay at the weekend while we did up the kitchen and FIL commented that I should say to my parents that I did the work myself and that I "didn't need to get a Paddy or a Pole in to do it for me." My response was (lightheartedly) "Well I did have to get a Paddy in, but the Paddy was me." He had no response for that. Thinking back on it I'm really annoyed that he basically used a racist term for Irish people in front of me. My main concern is that if he keeps making these sort of remarks that DS, when he's older, will start to pick up on them.

Other gems include calling the Chinese person next door a "cufflink" Confused. Should I say something, or just let it go?

OP posts:
TheBrideofFrankenstein · 02/11/2011 11:28

Agree it's all contextual. In China "gweillo" is a name for a westerner- it basically means "ghost face" and can be offensive or completely benign, depending how it's used.

Someone might just say "Oh yeah, John the gweillo guy in IT" or "Is your boss a gweillo?" and just mean "a westerner" in the most benign/neutral way or they might say "fucking gweillo" as an insult- i.e. implying that the behaviour that's pissed them off is endemic in westerners

cat64 · 02/11/2011 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

thegingerone · 02/11/2011 11:39

I was once accussed of being racist at Uni when while playing a drinking game when I had to shout out my favourite tipple, I shouted "Paddy and Red, of course!", the guy next to me took offence because his gran was Irish.

It took me a while to calm him down and explain that I was from Galway, had lived there for 18 and a half of my (then) 19 years and my favourite drink was in fact Paddy (whiskey) and Red (lemonade) and the " of course" was the fact I don't drink Scottish whiskey ,due to my patriotism.
Point is he got VERY offended at what he saw as a racial comment.

I get low level racism form my FIL but I just retort with my charming intelligent wit and disprove all his sterotypes about my nation.

I think the term CAN be racist in certain (most) situations but mot all and it depends on the audience/recepiant.

Abra1d · 02/11/2011 11:49

THe best example of racism-that-wasn't I have heard was when Brian Sewell, the art critic, was taking part in a radio programme. There was no air-conditioning and the fan was broken. It was a small studio. He said something like, 'It's like the Black Hole of Calcutta in here.'

An engineer downed tools and walked out, threatening industrial action because Sewell had been racist. He had no idea that The Black Hole of Calcutta was an historic event and was actually a sweltering black hole in the ground.

tearsbeforebreakfast · 02/11/2011 11:49

It might be offensive, but its not racist, since Irish is not a race of any description.

Katiepoes · 02/11/2011 11:57

I'm Irish and not easily offended but do not refer to me as a Paddy. Unless you are happy for me to call you an ignorant arse.

mawbroon · 02/11/2011 12:08

LordOfTheFlies - sassenach

As with some of the other names mentioned on the thread, I guess it is all about the context.

Original poster
CailinDana · 02/11/2011 13:54

Thanks for replies. Someone mentioned that I said the term back to my FIL. I said "I did get a Paddy in, the Paddy is me" as a lighthearted way of making him realise that I would find the term offensive because it referred to me. It did shut him up but I'm not sure if he got what I meant. I would never use that word normally.

I think I agree with the people who said not to bother bringing it up with him. I don't think it would make much difference. However, if he says it or any other racist term in front of my DS when he's able to understand it then I will say something as that's where I definitely draw the line.

OP posts:
Andrewofgg · 02/11/2011 14:20

These things are generational. When I was at school one of my teacher would call a child caught out being "economical with the truth" a lieing Arab - a remark which would be a rather long-winded way of writing his resignation now.

But I wonder what today's teachers say which will horrify our successors a few decades down the road . . .

fedupofnamechanging · 02/11/2011 14:37

I think people in all countries use nicknames to describe people from other countries. I don't think there is any harm in that generally. What matters is whether it was said in a joking, affectionate way or as an insult, and that comes down to his tone and his character.

Original poster
CailinDana · 02/11/2011 14:49

Coming from a very obvious racist a term like Paddy definitely does not come across as affectionate.

OP posts:
Katiepoes · 02/11/2011 14:55

Paddy implies thick. How is that affectionate please?

D'you think chink is affectionate? Or Hun? Or wog?

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 02/11/2011 14:56

Cailin - it was me that asked, just to check and see if he had heard you use it yourself and thought it was okay because you say it.

Since he hasn't heard you use it, and you say he often makes racist or derogatory remarks about people, I don't think you are being unreasonable to feel offended by it.

BUT...I'm still not sure if you should confront him or not, because weirdly it doesn't sound like he thinks of you that way based on that remark and realising that he has just said 'paddy' to you might have given him enough of a shock to be more careful about using the word around you in the future.

sue52 · 02/11/2011 15:01

I am Irish. I have several Patricks and Padraigs in my family, all called Paddy for short. Does that make me racist? Too much uncalled for sensitivity here.

Original poster
CailinDana · 02/11/2011 15:05

I am aware that Paddy is name, I know a few. Obviously though if you call someone a "Paddy" when their name isn't Padraig or Patrick then that's a different thing entirely.

OP posts:
HowAboutAHotCupOfShutTheHellUp · 02/11/2011 15:26

Depends on the context. Used as a general term in a neutral way isn't offensive (my mother is Irish), but of course it could be used in a derogatory way, but then so can a lot of seemingly innocuous words and terms.

wahwahwah · 02/11/2011 15:33

I worked for an irish firm and the term 'Paddy Oirish' was used quite a lot. So was the work Feck come to think of it.

Katiepoes · 02/11/2011 15:37

Oh for feck sake - your name being Paddy and being called a paddy are two different things. Does being called Dick make it nice be called a dick?

mumnotmachine · 02/11/2011 15:55

Im Welsh and have often heard Welsh people being referred to as Taffys.

I'm not offended by it, I don't think its derogatory

I wouldn't consider Paddy racist either, but I'm not sure how the name materialised (obviously Taffy is from the river running through Wales)
Is it something to do with St Patrick?

sue52 · 02/11/2011 16:17

Katiepoes I would not be in the least offended if you called me a paddy.

MrsTwinks · 02/11/2011 16:31

Its always hard to judge how it was intended because here its typed, so we don't get the inflection and so forth, but YANUB to find it offensive. I'm irish and I find it offensive at times, I think my IL's can be terribly insensitive toward my hertitage as such. I am, quite seriously, banned from using Irish names for our DC's, they find things I do that are family trad's but "irish" in their minds wierd and tell me so, and they don't find that telling me that could be offensive.

Same with a complete TWAT of a friend of friend who was so drunk all he kept asking me about was potatos in the pub. 90% found it hysterical, I was trying hard not to bloody lamp the tosser. Theres also the thing that ah well I'm joking that makes people think its acceptable.

Think you said the right thing to FIL. My G'da and his best mate at work, who was west indian, used get stick so as a sod off they called eachother Paddy and Sambo at work. Soon made all the other blokes feel way to awkward to say anything :)

MrsTwinks · 02/11/2011 16:36

oh also... truest thing ever

couldnt resist sorry i hum it at DH when his parents are off on one

Original poster
CailinDana · 02/11/2011 16:42

Ha that's fab MrsTwinks.

I find too that my PILs are a bit negative about Irish things. They're very negative about the time they spent in Ireland which is fair enough if they didn't enjoy it but I don't think it's too much to expect for them to take into account that it's my home country and as such I'm not the best person to complain to about it. That said I don't find their complaints offensive, just annoying, and it's just the Paddy reference that got to me really.

OP posts:
Whatmeworry · 02/11/2011 16:43

Here is that rousing ballad , sung for your enjoyment by those -fecking racist bastards-- Folk Rockers, the Pogues :)

JosieRosie · 02/11/2011 16:51

OP, YANBU as far as I'm concerned. 'Paddy' most definitely CAN be used as a racist term - as other posters have said, it's 100% to do with context and familiarity. I would have been Hmm at your FIL's comments too. My family is Irish and I grew up in Ireland and my family would take none to kindly to being referred to as 'Paddies' by someone else, but occasionally use the word to refer to themselves. Some posters on here seem to have made their minds up already though and there will be no persuading them otherwise!