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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be offended by this?

89 replies

CailinDana · 02/11/2011 09:05

My FIL is a racist. He would say he isn't but he is. To give background, I'm Irish, PILs (and DH of course) are English but they lived in Ireland for over 10 years when DH was little. We had the PILs to stay at the weekend while we did up the kitchen and FIL commented that I should say to my parents that I did the work myself and that I "didn't need to get a Paddy or a Pole in to do it for me." My response was (lightheartedly) "Well I did have to get a Paddy in, but the Paddy was me." He had no response for that. Thinking back on it I'm really annoyed that he basically used a racist term for Irish people in front of me. My main concern is that if he keeps making these sort of remarks that DS, when he's older, will start to pick up on them.

Other gems include calling the Chinese person next door a "cufflink" . Should I say something, or just let it go?

OP posts:

worraliberty · 02/11/2011 09:52

Yeah but you have to realise 'Paddy' is actually an Irish name (short for Patrick) so the name itself isn't racist...it's just some people think it's racist to refer to Irish people in general as 'Paddies'

Again, I think the racism/non racism is in the context.

squeakytoy · 02/11/2011 09:57

Every Irish person I have known has referred to themselves or fellow countrymen as "paddys", and working in the construction industry, I have known plenty. One of our best friends is Irish and will refer to himself as a paddy. It is not racist or insulting used in the right context.

duckdodgers · 02/11/2011 09:57

Im Scottish and whilst Ive always hated the term jock I dont consider it racist, I just think its very rude used in certain contexts.

slavetofilofax · 02/11/2011 09:58

Of course it's in the context, but I think in this case, Op has made it quite clear that her FIL is using the word Paddy in a derogatory way, and that is not acceptable.

I have an Irish friend that everyone calls Paddy, even though his name is Matt, and it's just a harmless nickname. But this isn't the same.

pictish · 02/11/2011 10:05

He's a narrow minded idiot, but there is no point being offended. It won't change him, it'll only wind YOU up.

In my passionate youth I used to automatically voice my distaste at racist comments, hoping to politely enlighten the soggy headed, but meh...they don't care do they?

Nowadays I hear little of it...but on the odd occasion I do I cringe inwardly, but say nothing. If it's a clanger, once in a blue moon, I'll say "Oooh a little bit of racism to make the day better...thanks!"

I may as well be talking to a stuffed toy though.

TotemPole · 02/11/2011 10:07

Ask him what a cufflink is next time.

He often makes very small minded comments and I took it in this context. For example the other night he commented that Sophie and Sian and Corrie weren't convincing because they "didn't look like lesbians."

Ask him what he thinks a lesbian looks like. If he comes back with the short hair, dungarees stereotype, point out it's a misconception.

It could be that no one has ever challenged what he says so he doesn't even start to look at things differently. It could be that he's set in his ways and that's how he'll always be.

OldGreyWassailTest · 02/11/2011 10:07

One day in the future we will all come from the same country, all dress the same, have the same haircuts, you will not be able to tell the difference between male and female, children will be brought up asexual, and everybody will have the same name. THEN some people will be satisfied and will not be able to find anythying to be outraged about.

Won't it be a boring world??

squeakytoy · 02/11/2011 10:14

Oh I would say that was a fair point. Especially when they went to a "lesbian" club supposedly in Manchester, where every female in the place looked glammed up and like a model. Coupled with the fact that both those actresses are completely unconvincing in every aspect too.

LordOfTheFlies · 02/11/2011 10:22

My DS is Scottish >I remember a programme where a man was called Sweaty by his workmates : Sweaty sock - Jock. That's worse!

I'm English, it's been a long time since someone called me sassenach (probably not spelled right)>
I don't know what it means or if it's rude, but I wouldn't consider it racist.

Whatmeworry · 02/11/2011 10:25

THEN some people will be satisfied and will not be able to find anythying to be outraged about.

Never! There will always be the Professionaly Offended :)

saoirse86 · 02/11/2011 10:26

I am pretty shocked that so many people think this is fine and should be accepted because he was brought up in a different time. Seriously?!

My FIL is always making similar comments, especially jokes about the Irish being thick always directed at me (my mum's Irish) and I find it extremely offensive. In actual fact my family and I are far more intelligent than he is but that's besides the point. The other day he even made a very offensive comment about lesbians which is offensive enough, but even more so considering his lesbian daughter was sitting next to him!

My dd is too young to understand any of it at the moment but I won't have her spending time with him if he continues to be like this.

FWIW I don't think age can be used as an excuse. My grandad was always very racist against black and Asian people until he finally realised he was wrong when he was in his 70's.

worraliberty · 02/11/2011 10:32

Just to stick it back in context as the thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent....

didn't need to get a Paddy or a Pole in to do it for me

Toobluntforboss · 02/11/2011 10:34

I'm Irish and agree that Paddy generally depends on the context it's used as to whether it's racist or not. I've lived in England for over 10 years and am still astounded at the amount of comments I get to my face about the Irish - stupid, violent, drunks etc etc. I don't believe that the same people would say such things about any other race or nationality but somehow it's perfectly acceptable to be racist towards the Irish.

diddl · 02/11/2011 10:38

I´ve totally misread then & he was actually complementing OP on her kitchen refurbishing skills?

So why not just say so without mentioning any nationalities?

worraliberty · 02/11/2011 10:42

Perhaps because he felt comfortable saying that to his Irish DIL and having lived there for 10 years himself?

Toobluntforboss · 02/11/2011 10:47

Just because someone has a 'connection' to Ireland doesn't make it any easier up hear an offensive comment if they're not actually Irish - I've had a few people say something bordering racism, to then qualify it by saying, it's ok, my wife's Irish! It still astounds me and I ask them what their wife would say but generally the response is they wouldn't say it to her face!

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 02/11/2011 10:49

DH is Irish. It's all about context. If someone he barely knows calls him a paddy in a sneering way, he will be massively pissed off. If a mate makes a joke, and knows him well, he won't be. It's a sort of....familiarity issue. So if you know, and like someone, it isn't offensive. But if you're not Irish, and the first time you meet an Irish person you say 'So, you're a paddy then?', expect to be thought of as a) a wanker, and b) racist.

VeryStressedMum · 02/11/2011 10:49

I wouldn't ever call an Irish person 'paddy', and I do think that a lot of Irish people would be offended if I called them that.

It's all very well saying it's ok if it's meant as a joke, but when does a joke stop becoming a joke? I don't think calling anyone any name based around their ethnic origin is OK at any time - I personally hate people who do that then say they are not racist. So why would they single out their culture in the first place?

worraliberty · 02/11/2011 10:50

Exactly Chickens and in this case the PIL was obviously trying to make a joke....telling his Irish DIL that she didn't need to get a Paddy in.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 02/11/2011 10:50

Forgot to say, OP, but if you are offended, then you are. I don't think it's unreasonable to not want your FIL to use the word in a derogatory manner. And being older is not an excuse for rudeness.

Whatmeworry · 02/11/2011 10:53

Forgot to say, OP, but if you are offended, then you are

Just because she is offended doesn't make her reasonable.....and the old will usually do what they damned well please, so you can either waste your time and energy Being Offended or just accept they are from another time and place.

TheRealMrsHannigan · 02/11/2011 10:54

I am of (part) Irish descent, my mums family are from Nenagh, Dads family are English. I don't find the term Paddy offensive, my Uncles have always used it openly in an jocular way. I understand some people do find it offensive though, and have every right to ask not to be referred to in that way.

I would just say to him that you find it offensive and ask him to refrain using the term in your presence.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 02/11/2011 11:00

OP you say that you repeated the word back to him twice in a lighthearted way, and it was only later that you became offended.

Does that mean that you use the word yourself at all at other times, to have been able to use it twice lightheartedly yourself?

wigglesrock · 02/11/2011 11:21

I'm Irish and I find it offensive. If I was in work and someone was trying to describe a person and they said "oh she's the paddy" - I would be offended. Its traditionally a perjorative term for an Irish person, just as Taig is a perjorative term for a Catholic, it also came from the name - Timothy - doesn't make it less insulting.

Whatmeworry · 02/11/2011 11:26

Get a grip people - if he had wanted to use actually offensive terms about the Irish and Poles he could have done a lot worse.

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