To have written to the school about the Christmas shoebox scheme?

[gastrognome]

Just had a look through the leaflet sent home from DD1's school about the Christmas shoebox scheme that they are involved in.

Turns out the organisation adds religious literature to the boxes before they are distributed.

I love the idea of filling and sending a Christmas shoebox for somebody less privileged than us, but I really don't like the fact that these schemes are used as a means to evangelise. Of course Christmas is by its very nature a Christian festival but I don't think that it's right to "spread the word" by stealth.

So I just wrote to DD's school and suggested that next year they look for a similar scheme that isn't so evangelical in nature. I said I'd be happy to help research any organisations they could work with.

Do any others feel the same way, or have I turned into Scrooge?

Showofhands, Christmas is not a Christian festival????? Really? Since when? It's the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ and of course, it is the Christian festival, it won't exist without the Christianity.
And OP, YABU. It is the Christian festival and it's primary connection is with Christianity, not with giving out presents, shoeboxes etc.

I chose not to send my DD to a faith school (very common and even prevalent in many parts of Belgium). So perhaps that's another reason why I'm not keen on this scheme being espoused by the school... But I suspect that's a whole other thread.

HittheRoadJack
I did a bit of research on this today, and found this from the US website where they make no attempt to hide why they give out the boxes.

Akila and about 120 other children are using The Greatest Journey in Cotton Hill, a Rastafarian and Hindu area where many of the families perform animal sacrifices. The youth who live there usually don?t finish high school, and teenage pregnancies and drug and alcohol abuse are common. Wendy and the other teachers are hopeful that their kids will remember the Bible lessons they teach them and share the truths with their families at home.

Now, tell me that is not racist. The animal sacrifices, the teenage pregnancies, the drug abuse... and the implication that this arises from their Hindu and Rastifarian beliefs, rather than the extreme poverty and deprivation in the area in which they live.

Himalaya, my argument isn't with a box of toys...I don't support any British charities full stop. I just like to know how much of my £1 goes toward lining the pockets of the CEO.

Table of CEO salaries

HitTheRoadJack
In which world are you living if you think that an average of £70k is lining the pockets of the CEOs most of whom will have to live and work in London and could likely earn much more in the private sector.

Jeeeez Louise.

MME- Would you find it racist if I said;

"In Kabul, many of the families perform animal sacrifices (goats at Eid). The young women who live there usually, don't attend school. Teenage marriages and pregnancies are common, as is child molestation and child abuse when in the marital home. Wendy and the other teachers are hopeful that the Bible lessons they shared will be remembered..."

Or would you see it a cultural difference?

MME- In the world where people are living in "shelters" and believe it or not there are some people who live in London on less than 30k and manage to survive...difficult concept to comprehend I know.

No, I would not, as you did not make the link to religion. It is not stated, but strongly implied in the quote that I posted earlier.

Very much "we benevolent Christians must save the heathens from their sins".

It is the modern day Crusades.

It's implied that forced/arranged marriages in Afghanistan are under Islamic law.

My statement didn't say so but read the papers every day and that kind of thing is always implied.

You don't need to patronise me. My brother lives on considerably less than 30k so I know that it is possible. Just bloody hard going.

I am not some rich middle-class hooray-henrietta. My family is far from well off.

But I also know that £70 - 100k is by no means lining ones pockets.

It's a lot of money when the people they are "supporting" are getting by on pittance a day.

Taking home 100k a year, knowing full damn well that the charity you "support" is doing 70k less because you don't want to live on 30k is ridiculous. Living in London is no excuse, people manage to live on benefits in London. I'm not buying that 30k is a struggle. Utter nonsense.

Hmmm. I've been thinking about this one. From other threads you may know I've stood up for OCC, from the POV that they don't put leaflets in places where it would be culturally innapropriate ie Muslim areas and there is no pressure to join courses etc. The origin of it is in the joy of giving and SP works on many projects alongside it eg working with people with aids and with women to start businesses etc plus vaccination programmes and a whole lot more. So in some senses I see they do much needed work and OCC was meant to be a branch of this which gave pleasure to the child as well as the necessary aid for life.

However, posters like SGM make an extremely valid point. What are these boxes usually filled with? Tat from Poundland. Where was tat from Poundland produced? Often in the countries the shoeboxes go to, in fact possibly by the very children who receive them. Something is wrong in that. Why are they shipping boxes of unethically produced crap across the world?

Yes, the child may love getting a gift, I've no doubt many do. But I'm wondering if there is a better way. Also it does seem that there is some less than transparent stuff having gone on behind SP and the way things have been done have not been altogether the most compassionate way of doing what they say they want to do, ie spread Jesus' message.

Hmmmm. I am still pondering on this one...but all in all I think YANBU

Anyway, this is so far off topic, that we are almost in Africa ourselves.

I will return to the matter at hand.

My objections: religious evangalism disguised as charity, and more importantly the transport of boxes of tat around the world at huge cost, and as SGM said, to the poor kids who work in the sweatshops that make this kind of junk.

Instead of everyone in school donating £5 and paying for a part of a water pump.

Best thing I've read on here for a while Knickerstoit! Well said,the anti-Christian bashers get my goat too. I am christened, as are my children, we don't go to church every week and I don't pretend to understand or believe it all but I like the traditions and the history and believe we are losing so much....

Well I hope you are more than aware where all of your clothes are stitched.

If water pumps had been bought with the money given in the past 60 years (when my mother was a girl) every bloody house/shack/shed/village in the whole continent of Africa would have clean water.

Where do you suggest the "poor kids who work in sweatshops" work instead?

Madhairday
There was a programme on TV yesterday where they visited a cocoa plantation in Ghana. Children of 10 years old were harvesting cocoa. The German reporter asked if they had ever tasted chocolate. They had not. If you could have seen the faces on these two boys when he gave them their first ever piece of chocolate. It made me cry.

HitTheRoadJack

From the table, the answer to your question is about 0.05 of a penny out of your pound would go to Oxfam's CEO. Aren't you more interested in what happens to the other 99.95 pence?

I agree that I would not support a charity that pays its CEO half a million, but none of the salaries in the table look unreasonable for someone running a multi-million pound organisation and employing thousands of people.

Comparing CEO salaries it doesn't tell you anything about which charity is most effective.

On the other hand when you fill a shoe box you can be sure that you are paying twice as much +vat than the charity would pay if they bought the same stuff wholesale. So already half your donation is going to Mr Tesco/Mr Primark or whoever. Then you have to take away the cost of collection, sorting and delivery rather buying the stuff direct. Then you have to account for the fact that some shoeboxes will go to kids who don't need them. Girls who aren't into dolls will get a box of dolls, boys who don't love trucks will get a box of trucks etc, kids who already have toothbrushes will get toothbrushes, kids who need toothbrushes will get candy...so the value to those children may be a lot less than the cost of the gift and delivery to get it to them.

Any charity that wastes so much of what people donate isn't doing their job well, whatever the CEO is paid.

I feel the same about the boxes and the way they're distributed. When we got our call for shoebox donations, we also had the harvest festival appeal requests. This one was for an organisation run by a local church, but they are upfront about that on their website and they help local families in need, without any indoctrination involved. I binned the shoebox letter and bought lots of extra stuff for the harvest festival, instead.

I think there's enough good causes in need of our generosity out there for us to all be able to be picky about the ones we are most comfortable with.

Robins
FFS where are the Christian bashers?

I am a Christian myself and have not at any point on this thread said anything against the religion.

It is those profiting from the religious beliefs, and the willingness to help those less fortunate, that I am angry at.

Yes, do a Xmas concert with the proceeds going to Save the Children. Or go on a Santa Fun Run - organise that and I will gladly send you a tenner.

But these greedy, smug bastards at Samaritans Purse - not a penny of my cash will they ever see.

HitTheRoad
I am aware where my clothes come from. And not inclined to go there and shut the shops down, putting people out of work. But it doesn't mean that we should not give assistance to those in these countries to help themselves out of poverty.

Have only read the first 3 pages as such a long thread.

We have decided this year to send a shoebox through the Romania appeal organisation instead of OCC. We filled the box with useful and fun things for the whole family, not just one child like with OCC, and then ticked a tick list as to what things we put in and wrote down things we put in that weren't on the list (but aren't banned iyswim). The whole box is wrapped (so not the box and lid separately) so they can't add literature or take out or put in things. I prefer this way and will be doing this every year. We were asked to attach £2 to the box for the postage and it is driven over to Romania not flown so you can put deodorant in etc so it's even cheaper than OCC (albeit only slightly)

MmeLindor - indeed. We've done the shoeboxes for years and have not put Poundland tat in, we put fairtrade stuff in but it doesn't change the fact that a good proportion of the boxes will be made up of such, and this doesn't seem a particular good or even ethical use of resources to me.

This Christmas my son's school is asking for pupils to bring an item of non-perishable food in to go to the local food bank. Brilliant idea.

It's cheap - a packet of noodles for instance can be as little as 10p. People who wish to spend more, can.

The food goes to local people in need.

There are minimal transport and carbon costs.

The sorting and delivery is done by local volunteers.

The school used to do shoe-boxes but I'm told the PTA changed the policy, and I can understand why having read many of the posts here.

Oh and agree this is not about Christian bashing, but about discussing an organisation that are not in actuality acting on the principles they claim to operate by. I still think they do a lot of good work, but that doesn't excuse the poor use of resources.

i havent read the thread, but when dds nursery did the appeal, i asked where the toys went, and when i was told i didnt join in.

Robins Wrote:
I am christened, as are my children, we don't go to church every week and I don't pretend to understand or believe it all but I like the traditions and the history and believe we are losing so much....

This is the barmiest thing I've read on this thread! So you don't understand or believe in it really but you think it's ok for poor children in developing countries to have religion foisted upon them cos you like singing carols once a year.

If it was that good they wouldn't need to try and bribe children who have very little with gifts to try and get them on board would they?