To have written to the school about the Christmas shoebox scheme?

[gastrognome]

Just had a look through the leaflet sent home from DD1's school about the Christmas shoebox scheme that they are involved in.

Turns out the organisation adds religious literature to the boxes before they are distributed.

I love the idea of filling and sending a Christmas shoebox for somebody less privileged than us, but I really don't like the fact that these schemes are used as a means to evangelise. Of course Christmas is by its very nature a Christian festival but I don't think that it's right to "spread the word" by stealth.

So I just wrote to DD's school and suggested that next year they look for a similar scheme that isn't so evangelical in nature. I said I'd be happy to help research any organisations they could work with.

Do any others feel the same way, or have I turned into Scrooge?

Issy, I would be happy if the people who SEND the boxes got a booklet of Christian stories - because those people live in a country which is culturally Christian and celebrate Christmas.

Why should the recipients, who do not generally live in countries which are culturally Christian, and do not celebrate Christmas, get Christian literature at all? Christian Aid doesn't hand out Christian literature with its sanitation kits or wells or donkeys...

Have been sending 2 shoe boxes at Christmas (and other times of year too) to soldiers in Afghanistan via Support Our Soldiers. You have to stick to the suggestions on the website.I do one male and one female themed and I usually arrange to meet my local co ordinator and hand them over who is happy to meet even for a couple of boxes. Had a lovely letter back from a soldier once saying how much the boxes boost moral.
www.supportoursoldiers.co.uk/irshop.aspx?section=content&page=75

This site has been linked to in another thread on this topic

www.inminds.com/occ.html

Although it is somewhat out of date, it does at least have references to further articles etc

Hmm. Now if schools did an appeal for shoeboxes to be assembled to Support Our Soldiers, would people consider that OK? And if some people considered it not OK on the grounds that (for instance) troops should not be in Iraq/Afghanistan or War Is Naughty and the army are a representation of the evil oppressive System or whatever, would they be told that they are making a fuss about nothing? Howabout if your school appeal for some nice-sounding 'charity' turned out to be organised by the BNP?

See in Northern Ireland, where I am, there's no way a school would do Support Our Soldiers.

Fluffy: Well, quite. That's a charity that individual families might choose to support, but might not. And the problem with Samaritan's Purse is that they hide their agenda yet expect schools full of kids from a wide range of cultures to support them.

Exactly. BTW I wasn't commenting on whether I personally would or wouldn't do a shoebox for soldiers, just that in this part of the UK, no school would ever take on to do such a thing

YABU - they're sending boxes with presents for Christmas... errr, it's a religious holiday. The recipients needn't read it but far nicer to send info re the true meaning of Christmas rather than just stuff. If you're offended don't send anything.

far nicer to send info re the true meaning of Christmas rather than just stuff

erm, no, Not nicer at all. Much nicer to get the neccessities one needs, or some helpful things for the family, without having to be subjected to one sector's propaganda on the "true" meaning of Christmas.

I am pretty sure that the "true meaning of Christmas" varies depending whom you ask.

During the Famine, Irish Catholics who wanted to receive food for their starving children were made to listen to religious sermonising before being helped - want to eat? OK, Convert. ick.

YABU. The children don't have to attend Sunday School to get the boxes. Theybare often taken around hospitals and orphanages. Samaritans Purse ask you to contribute towards the cost of shipping. Yes they may put a tract in but no one is forcing the children to read them. They often go through boxes as people often put things that they hav been
Told not to. EG toy guns, sweets that go our of date before Christmas and second hand stuff..

I don't really see what the problem is with the leaflet being put in the box, the children can read the leaflet to understand why they are receiving the box at that particular time.

If somebody gave my children a gift to celebrate their own religious festival I would also like them to be given some information as to the meaning of the gift.

"The recipients needn't read it but far nicer to send info re the true meaning of Christmas rather than just stuff."

Why is it nicer for a Muslim child to receive information about the meaning of Christmas?? Not sure that I follow your logic.

Also, did you read the information I linked to up thread about the exact content of the missionary programme the children are invited along to (and it really isn't that many ignore it, the charity itself claims that 80% of children come back to these additional meetings - why? Because they are linked to food distribution / free meals which the children very much need)? It's not 'this is what Christmas means to Christians, we understand that you are not Christian but thought that we would let you know how another faith has a celebration at this time of year', it's 'Ours is the only true faith, you have to follow it to be saved, if you don't you will go to hell' stuff.

ds's school fell for this scam a few years ago. I pointed out to the head that it was a rather exploitative and dishonest organisation and she asked me to come up with an alternative for the following year. A Mner put me on to Mary's Meals and the backpack appeal which worked really well - the children at ds's school were just as excited about putting rucksacks together and it is an actual good cause, not a front for evangelising. Some of the people who set it up are Christians, but unlike Samaritan's purse, they treat the donors and recipients with respect, and don't mis-use gifts freely given or attempt to convert Muslim children.

I didn't make a big statement about how awful Samaritan's purse is at school, btw, because the announcement had been made and kids were excited - and I knew some of the families putting shoeboxes together were Muslim and might well have been upset to see how their charity was being exploited.

I can vaguely remember at my eldest son doing a shoebox, about 15 years ago. I remember thinking it was pretty pointless as we didn't really have anything decent to put in it. I didn't know anything about any religious leaflets being added and if I had done I certainly wouldn't have contributed, as it's not a message I support.

One of the factors this nasty 'charity' trades on is that a lot of stupid people are going to go 'Oh well, it's Christians, Christianity is sort of bound to be good' in the same way that they might go 'Ooh, it's about ickle puppies, puppies are good and don't ever grow up into big bitey barkey dogs.'

YABU- Christmas is a Christian religious celebration, so having a Christian aspect of this is natural otherwise whats the point as December 25th is no different to other day in the calender.

Christmas is a Christian religious celebration

I'm confused. Don't the people posting this sort of thing understand that, first of all, "Christian" covers a lot of ground? Does this mean that the Quakers have the True Meaning of Christmas? The Lutherans? The Mormons? The Catholics? The Cult of Brother Frankie Big-Nose? Are you happy enough for your kids to raise money or charitable contributions so the Cult of Brother Frankie can spread his Christian message?

for a simple illustration of just some of the diversity of Christianity:[http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/denominations_beliefs.htm]

It's just a ridiculous statement. Stop assuming that your True Christian Meaning is the same as my TrueChristian Meaning. Or that there is a True Christian Meaning which we should be sharing with the rest of the world through evangilisation via children at a non-faith-based school!!!

SolidGold, did you really just mention dogs on a mumsnet thread?

Woof.

i packed shoe boxes for a charity last xmas, there are no leaflets added to that particular charities shoe box appeal.

so please do the research before dismissing it.

The annual Mumsnet discussion on this (...it's practically a Xmas tradition) is very interesting and I think shows how much people are willing to engage their brains on this stuff, in contrast to the mawkish sentimentalism encouraged by the whole shoe-box aid idea.

I am really encouraged that so many people are taking this up with their schools. It is not, as some posters seem to be interpreting hypocritical atheists being uptight about any mention of Christianity at Xmas, it is that this is dumb as a way of helping people, and dumb as a way of teaching children about why people need help and what kind of help is effective (and in the case of SP dishonest to boot).

The scheme is 'wrapped up' in three layers of cultural messaging that tells people not to question its effectiveness or efficiency. There is the bit about 'it's a gift', there is the bit about 'it's faith driven' and there's the bit about 'it's charity' all of which encourages "aw the ickle puppie dogs" level of thinking, which does no one any favors (not least educationally).

If schools thought about this seriously I don't think they would do itt. And I think aid and poverty deserve serious thinking, not dumbing down to this level.

I hate the lazy idea it spreads that there are children who 'have nothing' and therefore can be helped by sending them a box of whatever takes our fancy. If you want to help someone you should not assume that because they are young and poor they 'have nothing' (....nothing worth learning about..). They have culture, needs, wants, aspirations, institutions, government. Proper charities work to understand this stuff, and why it is not working - and communicate it to donors. It will never be as attractive and fun as sending a 'shoebox of joy' - buy that is because it's not about us, it's about them.

The other lazy and offensive idea in any multicultural school is that children who don't receive gifts at Xmas are to be pittied. There are lots of families that don't give gifts at Xmas - Jewish families, Hindu families, Muslim families, JWs etc... Many will happily take part in xmas traditions at school, but that is different than telling them that there is something wrong if you dont get gifts at Xmas.

I think that any child who has nothing would love the joy of a present rather than people being so worthy all the time. I remember someone saying that they were sent a parcel (I think possibly from Canada)when they were a DC in WW2 and it was so exciting-it stood out in their memory. I expect there were better ways of spending the money, but why can't a small child get a bit of joy with another family helping them?
I support a DC through PLAN. The money goes to the whole community, but I correspond with one DC. You could say it was a waste of money in the administration better spent by cutting out the child aspect, but I believe we both get a lot out of it and it must be exciting to get a letter or a postcard.
If I was a charity case I would far rather have the personal touch than just be a statisitic. When I have done a box I have put a huge amount of thought into it.
You could say that your own DC doesn't need a present and the money could be better spent but you do it because you want your DC to be special and have the joy of it-why is an underprivileged DC different? Why do they have to be Christian-the majority of people in UK on 25th December will be celebrating and leaving out the Christian element entirely.

Wonder if anyone would be up for a Mumsnet collection of stuff? We could do rucksacks for Mary's meals, shoeboxes... between us we could send out a great deal of stuff somewhere. Just a thought.

custardo please, preeeetty please, read the detail of the thread, the boxes don't always arrive as the kind people in the distribution centres think they do.

the charity i packed for was a charity which sent to Romania. This charity hired its own lorries and did the distribution themselves. They were quite open about how they have to bribe officials to get the shoeboxes to the people who need them

stop banging your head