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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think people shouldnt be getting money for having children?

778 replies

normality · 01/11/2011 20:56

i know it is is controversal but i dont understand why some people feel the entitlement to get money for having children and aibu to think it should stop?

I think that if people want children then they should have them but they should not feel they are entitled for some kind of monetary hand out for having them

I especially feel like getting money for being pregnant like the sure start grant, maternity grant, healthy start vouchers ect should not happen because if you cant afford to have a child why should the goverment pay you to do this? what about the people who do not have any children and choose not to or can not why should they miss out on multiple grants and vouchers when they are paying more and more taxes to support the people who choose to have children and then choose not to work?

  • i have a dd and although i wanted a large family i could not afford to have more than one child so stopped but never claimed any grants ect because i did not want to be paid for being pregnant as it was my choice
OP posts:
Rocky12 · 01/11/2011 21:49

I am wondering. Does anyone disagree with limiting the housing people can get if they have a number of children and are not working.

gordyslovesheep · 01/11/2011 21:50

I am a lone parent of 3 ...

now where's my Kownsil Owse and £657575858 per child - oh wait ...lets see - that's not actually TRUE

whataloadofoldshit - seriously - and I have no idea about Belgium except I am glad I don;t live there BUT n the UK the MAJORITY of lone parents actually work and pay tax - shocker !

Annpan88 · 01/11/2011 21:50

So your saying only the well off make good parents?

Yes, some people need a bit of financial help. They could also make fabulous parents are you saying that someone who works very hard for a low income (and let's remember that this is a recession and many brilliant people are earning fuck all) and that this person may never earn a decent amount, that this means they should never parent a child?

Being a parent is about more than money

Jog on

usualsuspect · 01/11/2011 21:50

I meant 3 bedroomed Grin

You don't automatically get a bigger bedroomed house with each child you have

Rocky12 · 01/11/2011 21:50

But £10k per month in housing benefit. Is that really reasonable.

doublechocchipper · 01/11/2011 21:51

marriedinwhite, the JOhn Humphreys link I posted back in the thread shows an example of what natation is talking about - it's a very nice family from South America, but they're in an amazing part of London (beginning with an I? Very sorry I can't remember - maybe Islington?) - the father is a chemical engineer and he has brought his entire family to the UK. Because he cannot work in his profession over here (I don't know why - problems with professional accreditation? English problems? waiting on a work visa? not sure) he is basically doing unskilled manual work.

That is exactly the sort of complex problem that welfare reform needs to tackle.

It's not as simple as "workshy family here to scrounge", nor is it as sustainable as "somewhat hard working family living in ok area of London where most people could afford". It's much more complex than that - and it raises all the sorts of questions you'd expect, such as:

  1. This is a professional, hard working family - if only the UK system would give them a little leg up. They could be contributing their skills and tax from a salary into the system. But they can't. We've put barriers in their way.

  2. The family in question has several children. We can't allow them to live in poverty.

  3. Yet this family is an immigrant family, with no real work placement here - why did they come to the UK? Why not elsewhere in the world? Is it our duty to support them? And if it is, to what level?

  4. Leading on from (3), should we be placing the family into an area which costs £1000s each month in rent to private landlords, inflating (or keeping afload) vastly inflated local housing costs, forcing a vicious cycle for people having to move out of the area if they want their own homes in the area they grew up in?

I'm aware this has gone off into more of an immigrant tangent, but it's exactly the sort of thing JH has investigated in the TV show I mentioned. Namely, about the current broken state of the welfare system and all the elements drip feeding into two glaring facts:

  1. That the system does not represent the full intentions of its architect (Beveridge - who counted idleness amongst one of the great evils of society, alongside povery and disease, etc - which he attempted to eradicate with the welfare reforms)

and

  1. The current system is unsustainable.
Onemorning · 01/11/2011 21:51

So OP, why are you still claiming CB if you feel that it's wrong for people to be 'rewarded' for having children?

Or do you mean 'people not like you'? E.g. people without jobs...

JockTamsonsBairns · 01/11/2011 21:52

Rocky - are you making this up as you go along, or do you really hold these ridiculous beliefs?

What consequences did you have in mind? And training and support for what exactly? Who is going to fund this? Also, for benefits claimants, each extra child generally bring less money and over-crowding - not "more money and a bigger house" Hmm.

Please think about it.

usualsuspect · 01/11/2011 21:52

I know families with 2 bedroomed council houses that have 3 boys sharing a room

OhDoAdmit · 01/11/2011 21:53

I really think that there are some people who happen to have one child and then a few years later hit on the idea that they can make a virtue out of a simple fact.

Like the OP. Although desperate for a Walton size brood she selflessly denied herself this pleasure just to make the world a better place for all

Gawd bless er!

OR she just had a one child because that is what happened.

Like Ive got lots.

But of course I did that not for me but because I saw it as my duty to populate the world. Its tough but I soldier on.... (four dots)

natation · 01/11/2011 21:53

Marriedinwhite, on the John Humphry's programme this week, there was a family in exactly the circumstances who were living in a nice house in a well to do area of London, the father of the family admitted on camera that he would not be living in the house, were it not for the fact that the huge rent is paid for, not from his wages as a cleaner, but from housing benefit - if the family did not get this benefit, logically they would be living out in the suburbs of London or elsewhere in the UK where he would be paying the rent out of his cleaning salary.

TenderlyLovinglyByAGoat · 01/11/2011 21:53

fucking hell

this place is turning me into a complete communist

of course children need to be nourished and adequately housed and educated and enjoy basic standard of living - what kind of monsters would think otherwise?

shineynewthings · 01/11/2011 21:53

'make people think more about the decisions they make in life'

This is the point that I really feel people often don't get in these types of threads.

Life happens. Stuff happens. Sometimes people get trapped in a situation they never wanted. They end up divorced when they thought they would be married forever, they get made redundant, they can no longer pay their morgage, or they were never brought up to expect anything from themselves and just walk through life without thinking.

And perhaps it's not fair that people in these situations should be supported, but it's the right thing in my view. Because children should not suffer. And i think people like you O.P. have your eyes closed to the fact that there are people with children who literally struggle with all this money you think is being poured into their lap, to even buy their daily necessities. There are thousands upon thousands of people who are forced to go to 3 different supermarkets in the week just to get the best deals on their food or they cannot afford it. There are people who live off their overdraft, week in, week out.

As for this housing idea, HA HA HA, No one gets moved now, there aren't any houses to move into.

I really think you don't know what you're talking about.

GypsyMoth · 01/11/2011 21:54

The interviews would cost

The 'year only' is flawed... The family claiming may be back out of crisis in 3 months but think 'sod it' we might as well claim for the full year...

So many flaws with your thinking already...

Rocky12 · 01/11/2011 21:54

I think someone who is trying to support themselves without state help needs loads of assistance and support even if they are on a low income. If the people who do not want to work and who think that others should pay for their decisions - those are the people I think we should disuade from having more children. I stopped at 2 because I couldnt afford any more. Why does it seem to be a right to think that you can do what you like and 'someone'else will fund it.

tethersend · 01/11/2011 21:54

I can beat that, usual- one of my ex students (aged 16) lived in a 2 bed flat with her mum and SIX brothers and sisters.

And they got fifty thousand pounds a month in housing benefit. Probably.

GypsyMoth · 01/11/2011 21:55

Op...vome on. Answer about your child benefit claim

OhDoAdmit · 01/11/2011 21:55

Rocky is your mum paying all that 10k Shock

Bloody hell, no wonder you are pissed off.

tethersend · 01/11/2011 21:56

"If the people who do not want to work and who think that others should pay for their decisions - those are the people I think we should disuade from having more children."

So what do you do with the children they have?

crazynanna · 01/11/2011 21:56

I object to sharing a twatting country with twatting people who spew twatting twattery.

GypsyMoth · 01/11/2011 21:56

Social housing/council housing isn't just for benefit claimants either...did you know that op??

doublechocchipper · 01/11/2011 21:56

natation, yes - you're talking about the same family as I was there.

He was a chemical engineer, and part of what looked like a lovely family. But they were living in a mansion in one of the nicest areas of London, to the tune of thousands in benefits.

Meaning that if he ever gets a job as a professional (he was a chem engineer) he'll probably have to move to the outskirts, even on a 40k or 50k wage with all those children... bizarre!

Or he could continue to do the cleaning thing and hope that our housing benefits will be as generous for the next few years asthey have been before.

Meanwhile, locals are priced out of the housing market, and private landlords laugh all the way to the bank. Whilst the council foots the bill.

This is not and has never been a sustainable model.

IneedAbetterNickname · 01/11/2011 21:57

I disagee with limiting the number of bedrooms. As an example, a good friend of mine has 5 children, age 7, 5 (with SN), 3, 18 months and 4 months. She just found out her husband has had numerous affairs since they got together, he is father of the youngest 3. She (rightly) has kicked him out, but now needs HB to help pay the rent on her house. I honestly don't think they could, or should, have to squeeze into a 3 bed place, especially as moving would disrupt and upset the DC, who are already confused at the fact that Daddy has left!

usualsuspect · 01/11/2011 21:57

That can't be right tethers ,I thought you were given a mansion when you had 6 children

tethersend · 01/11/2011 21:58

They probably swapped the mansion for chips or something, usual.