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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU re: Divorce and pensions.

84 replies

watchoutforthatsnail · 01/11/2011 07:42

Talking at work yesterday. Most of the women in my office believe i am wrong for staking a claim on my ex husbands pension. One said to me, as the main bread winner in her family, it is not her fault if her husband has no pension and she would be discusted if he tried to take some of hers.

Is this the consensus view?

I was a bit shocked tbh.

It is the only thing i am taking, here was no house, there are debts, which are bing jointly paid. He was forces, so i gave up a chance of a career to follow him around. The pension is the only pay off i shall get. The only thing to compensate in any way. I know it makes no difference in the eyes of the law, but we split up because of years of constant affairs and emotional and physical abuse.

So - AIBU to take a percentage of his pension? and am i doing women a dis service by doing so?

OP posts:
caramelwaffle · 01/11/2011 09:40

Yanbu

slavetofilofax · 01/11/2011 09:45

Appukidu, yes, he should give her half of his pension.

It is one thing to pay maintenance for the children so that they can be fed and clothed etc, but if a woman has given up years of her life to be a SAHM, so that her husband can earn that pension without having to pay childcare costs, she has also given up years where she could be building her own carreer, and earning potential, as well as her own pension.

A man should not be able to choose to marry, choose to have children, choose to financially support someone else while they provide a free childcare , laundry, cleaning and cooking service, and then just choose to leave that person with no financial security when he has had enough and doesn't want or need those things anymore.

MorallyBankrupt · 01/11/2011 10:06

DH is in the army. Personally I wouldn't ask for part of his pension. I have moved, given up my career etc but I didn't risk my life a any point. I didn't spend 6 months in a war zone. I don't feel I've earned part of his pension at all. I would wanted part of any assets, yes, but I would never expect the pension.

NinkyNonker · 01/11/2011 10:08

But what if there were no assets as in this case? Would you happily send yourself into penury?

slavetofilofax · 01/11/2011 10:09

How would you intend to support yourself the Morally, if your DH left you when you were close to retirement age?

MorallyBankrupt · 01/11/2011 10:13

I have my own savings. Plus I would hopefully have a state pension.

If OP is still getting maintenance then she is still young enough to build a pension of her own IMO.

I just don't see an army pension like a normal pension fund. I know what DH has gone through, is about to go through again to earn that pension. I couldn't take part of it, in all good conscience.

Appuskidu · 01/11/2011 10:14

What about if the couple had one school-age child and the wife had refused to ever take paid employment (and had not had a job previously) which had, in part, led to their separation. Would she still be entitled to half of his pension?

MorallyBankrupt · 01/11/2011 10:15

Although DH works with someone who lost their leg. The wife left and took half the money he had from insurance for losing said leg.

That is wrong. Just wrong.

WhatWouldLeoDo · 01/11/2011 10:17

DH and I both have pensions but he's in a defined benefit scheme and is required to put in a lot more to his than I am to mine. We actually had a discussion about this the other day - as a household we couldn't afford for me to contribute as much to my pension and he does to his and we see his contribution as an investment for our retirement. On that basis, should we ever split I would absolutely claim my share of his pension (as accrued at the point of any split).

The way I see it, accrued pension rights at the point of any split are not different to other household income, investments, savings etc during the course of the marriage so I think YAdefNBU OP.

startail · 01/11/2011 10:40

Having been a SAHM for many years DHs pension is all I've got, so if ever we split I would defiantly expect my share.

CustardCake · 01/11/2011 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Robotindisguise · 01/11/2011 10:50

Yes, the leg money thing is definitely wrong.

But the law recognises that if you're a family unit, it's family money - even if society, sadly, doesn't any more. Especially if your other half has a job which is career kryptonite, like the Forces.

Although, on the other hand, I was a bit Hmm at a female colleague who lost half her pension to her husband who lost his job ten years previously and sat on his arse for ten years, not doing housework, not doing childcare either - childcare arrangements continued as he always said (after yet another row) that he really would try to get a job.

Eventually his laziness caused the marriage to break down, and he took half her pension.

WhereYouLeftIt · 01/11/2011 11:06

Haven't read everyone's replies, apologies if this has already been said.

As an undivorced person, I (and DH) consider us to be a single financial unit; any money that comes in is joint, all family expenses are joint. When we started our family, some income had to be sacrificed to allow time to care for DS, and it is irrelevant to our single financial unit who earned that income. Contributions to the single financial unit are not always financial - the non-financial contributions are what gave the other partner time to earn the financial contributions. Were we to break up and become two financial units, the assets accrued when one would be equally owned and therefore equally split.

OP, it is your contributions during the marriage that facilitated the accrual of the pension. It is therefore right and proper that you are due a proportion of it.

WhereYouLeftIt · 01/11/2011 11:12

^"Although DH works with someone who lost their leg. The wife left and took half the money he had from insurance for losing said leg. That is wrong. Just wrong."

Would it still be wrong if the wife had given up her job to care for her husband in the immediate aftermath, lost her seniority, stalled her pension, and couldn't find work in her field after he returned to work and had to take a minimum wage job she hated rather than be on the dole? The devil is in the detail.

DodieSmith · 01/11/2011 11:31

YANBU

mumofthreekids · 01/11/2011 11:32

YANBU

I met my DH at work. We were peers earning almost exactly the same amount. Then 6 years ago I stopped working (agreed by both of us) to look after the kids, since then he has had a couple of good pay rises and when I start looking for a job I will not be expecting to earn anywhere near as much as him. If we split up I would def think I deserved not to spend my retirement years in a much worse financial position than him.

Agree with WhereYouLeftIt, at first glance it seems wrong for the wife to get the leg money, but it depends on the situation. She was not risking her life, no, but if she was supporting him and bringing up their DCs and would be very badly off without any of the money then...?

bedubabe · 01/11/2011 12:03

Just wanted to say I've been on the other side of this my DH is (ex) forces and his ex-wife claimed on his pension. (I wasn't the OW btw, feel need to justify myself) Both I and him had no issues with this - she hadn't got a pension of her own because they were always moving and they tended to cash in her pension and spend it or she didn't go into one in the first place. IMHO she (and you) was entitled to half the pension. No question.

(Have a bit of an issue with the timing of her pension demand which meant she walked away with several thousand more than it was actually worth but not the principle!)

pranma · 01/11/2011 12:20

YANBU at all-of course you should take it if you are still single.There may be a complication if he re-marries too.It could be quite a complex legal situation and you need to make sure you have a written settlement.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 01/11/2011 12:28

I don't think YABU but I think context is all. My parents divorced a few years ago after many unhappy years. My mum now lives with her new partner, who is a bit younger than her (she worked throughout her marriage to my dad and has just retired). She got half of the money from the marital home, which I think is absolutely fair enough, but she also gets half of my dad's pension for life. He has a partner too but they don't live together. He is over 65 but still has to work, and struggles financially; he was unable to come to visit me this summer, although he badly wanted to come and see some theatre and exhibitions with me, because he couldn't afford it. My mum, meanwhile, goes on holiday about every three months and regularly shells out for coach trips to London to see West End shows.

That doesn't seem fair to me and it really sticks in my craw when my mum sends me yet another postcard and tacky souvenir from her latest cruise or package trip.

myfriendflicka · 01/11/2011 12:35

YANBU.

I'll tell you what's disgusting - that women have bought into misogyny in society so thoroughly that they think they are not entitled to anything after years of caring (oh that's not really work is it?!) and hate other women so much that they are keen to condemn any women who does take her entitlement.

Especially after an abusive marriage.

Women are disadvantaged in employment for many years because they do most of the childcare, and tie themselves in knots emotionally and at cost of their mental and physical health to do so.

And then they get told they are disadvantaging their children by working, then get condemned because they haven't built up a pension...

NinkyNonker · 01/11/2011 13:01

And other women collude in it by criticising those who claim what they ate entitled to.

Original poster
watchoutforthatsnail · 01/11/2011 13:12

Thank you. Need a round of applause for those last posts.

I will be taking what the law says im entitled to. No more, no less.

With regard to future marriages, it makes no bearing. Should I ever be silly enough to marry again my ex husbands pension will not be affected, why would it. That is from the time we were together, and any future relationship has no bearing on that time.

OP posts:
WibblyBibble · 01/11/2011 13:42

No, YANBU at all. You contributed to the family in one way, he did in another. If he was not going to give you any of the financial benefits, he should expect e.g. never to see his children or for you to bill him for housework. Obviously in an ideal world child-rearing would be counted economically and you'd have your own pension from that but since you don't then he owes you it and it is absolutely just for you to have it. Failure to make such claims is why women end up in poverty after relationship breakdown while men swan off with everything.

LtAllHallowsEve · 01/11/2011 13:46

Watchout and Zara whilst I am in total agreement with what you are doing, please be careful if you are dealing with a solicitor who does not have any military knowledge.

Saying that you are going to have 'half' is not correct. You are 'entitled' to pension divided by 22 years work, multiplied by half of the years you were married - ie if you were married 10 years and his gratuity was going to be £22K you would work it out as £22K divided by 22 = £1K, multiplied by 5 years = £5K. The same basic maths apply to his monthly pension as well.

There are plenty of documents on the Internet that you can download, plus the forms etc to apply via Glasgow.

HTH

Original poster
watchoutforthatsnail · 01/11/2011 13:56

Thanks, I have all that info thanks to a lovely mnetter :)
Solicitor has all that info, plus Glasgows details.

I know exactly What I'm entitled to, despite his claims it a waste of my time because its worth nothing.... Lol.

I agree that its very sad that it comes down to such things, but it does and needs to be delt with in a fair way.

OP posts:
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