To think that schools need to get much tougher on low level disruption & it's no wonder we're apparently falling behind other countries in terms of educational attainment.

[Cortina]

After reading the Ofsted report for a local primary I have been thinking that parents and teachers should get much tougher and expect higher standards of behaviour from children. It's no wonder we're apparently falling behind in terms of educational attainment when so many excuses are seemingly made for poor behaviour and low level disruption. At the risk of sounding ancient the sort of letter received by pupils below would be unthinkable 20 years ago.

Excerpts from Ofsted 'letter to pupils':

Sometimes we saw that the work teachers set was either too hard or too easy or a bit boring and then unsurprisingly some of you lost interest and started to misbehave. We think you behave well most of the time, especially in interesting and enjoyable lessons. Sometimes, when the lessons are a bit dull and not so exciting, some of you get restless and begin to disturb others.

The letter goes on to make excuses for low level disruption and some occasional bad behaviour and say that this isn't the children's fault at all. It ends with a request that they smile through and that the officers have noticed it's a good, safe school so they're lucky.

If I read this as an 11 year old child I would assume:

1. I could blame the rather dull lessons & poor lesson planning/teaching for my disruptive behaviour.

2. Wonder why on earth rather dull lessons were on the agenda at all? If the adults think lessons are sometimes boring and a bit pointless then I may as well switch off.

3. To think there were no sanctions or consequences for poor behaviour.

I think we need to wake up. Our children are going to have to compete in an increasingly globalised world. Can you imagine this being written and circulated to children in South Korea, Singapore or China? How the teachers would laugh at us circulating letters like this to pupils.

And I hate to bring up the private/state thing but how many prep schools do you think would have this philosophy? Surely we set our children up for failure with these sort of platitudes and half-baked excuses for poor behaviour.

My wider experience tells me that these sort of attitudes are not isolated to one (good by the way) Primary. I can see that they are trying to 'get the children on side' but I don't think it's working for reasons stated above.

YANBU - your post covers it all for me. Parents need to step up more than schools though - that's a whole nother fred though!

I don't give a stuff about china or the education system there! Why would be want to be compared to them??

though???? sorry about my abysmal post - knackered!

A bored child will quickly become a disaffected child. If the lessons are boring due to poor planning and teaching, then fair enough.
A good teacher will ensure that the lessons are not boring, ergo engaging all children.
In a public school, poor teachers are sent packing, class sizes are smaller, it is therefore easier to engage the pupils.

Tiffany, the way things are going the 'Chinese' may be your child's or grandchild's employer. The times they are a'changing.

YANBU- Firstly not everything ion life is fun.Every job, however glam, has its tedious parts, plus domestic tasks ironing , cleaning and cooking are often boring and tedious,comuting is boring and tedious.Boring things are part of everyday life and children need to learn to develop the self discipline how to cope with and apply themselves to things they don't find interesting and exciting.
Secondly and adult has told them to do the work and the children need to obey those in authority

I think that you've got to remember that report is for the purpose of assessing teachers primarily, not children. There are plenty of opportunities in which children are assessed and told off for their behaviour, though.

If a teacher sent your child home saying 'x seemed a bit bored in a lesson today and started to misbehave', and you said 'oh, but s/he is just terribly terribly bright and the teacher is boring', I am sure we would all tell you that this doesn't excuse rotten manners. But that is one situation, this is another.

Btw, I don't know how to compare the UK to other countries - I'm sure there are good and bad points of comparison too. FWIW, we currently have the top university in the world, and that is something to be proud of when you consider how (relatively) little funding they get - maybe all these non-docile children and this agitation for interesting lessons pays off later on?

I agree Dawndonna lessons should be interesting and teachers engaging but sometimes life/school can be dull and IMO we're not doing a child a favour by telling them doing the odd bit of disrupting or disturbing another pupil is perfectly understandable. Work ethic and self-discipline are increasingly important life skills and I believe we owe it to our children to try to inculcate them.

cortina i agree with you totally. Today's philosophy is its nevef the child's fault, its the teacher's fault and all misbehaviour is due to lessons not been "exciting".

ilovetiffany OP is making the comparions with china etc because like it or not these are these are the people our children will be competing with in future, wether its through trade or other industry.

I think there is a difference between lessons which are dull due to poor planning and those which are dull because, well, the subject matter is just dull. Learning irregular verbs is boring yet necessary to master a foreign language. 30 years ago the we had to recite them together as a class. No excuse for dull lessons due to poor planning though.

Yeah yeah..... Know all about china thanks ( still smarting from the cruel death of the little girl in the media last week)

And anyway, the ofsted report shows adults failing....

That letter is outrageous and seriously undermines the teaching staff. I don't see how they can be expected to maintain discipline in the classroom, when their bosses are effectively blaming them for the poor behaviour of some students.

Where is the parental responsibility in all this? A teachers job is to educate - they should not be responsible for the actual raising of other peoples children. The parents ought to be insisting that their kids behave well in school.

Teachers do their very best to provide stimulating and interesting lessons, but sometimes kids just have to knuckle down and get on with it. Not every task is going to be a thrill a minute, but it's important for children to learn that they are not entitled to be 'entertained' 24/7. What they are learning is important and involves hard work and just because they don't particularly fancy doing a particular task, it doesn't mean they can misbehave through it.

Part of a school's role is to prepare children for adult life. If we send them into the workplace with the sense that they are entitled to only do what they want, these kids will be unfit for the workforce and adult life is going to come as a huge shock. That isn't fair.

Tiffany, many have compared the rise of China to the rise of America in the 19th Century when it was a developing nation. There were plenty killed, left to die and shot on the streets then too. America evolved and the 20th Century belonged to it, many believe the 21st century will belong to China.

shanghai - yes, good point.

I think it's good to get your mind round the idea that yes, this particular task is inescapably dull but we'll all buckle down to it (washing the fekking paintbrushes springs to mind - made into a heavy moral responsibility when we were 5-6 ).

But if there is room for teachers to improve, and the Ofstead inspector thinks it might also improve discipline, surely this should be said rather than simply blaming the chilldren's behaviour?

The difference between the UK and China is that class sizes are much larger in China (40+ children) with one teacher. If the children misbehave and do not follow what is happening they will be left behind. The teachers send a text message to the parents at the end of each school day detailing what was covered that day, homework that is expected etc.

The teaching got a '2' karmabeliever. I agree with the points you make.

Are you in Shanghai, Shanghadiva? I believe disruption is practically non-existent (in the way I outlined in the letter in my OP) in China? Chinese culture is such that you are part of the community/wider family and all are inextricably bound up together, so if you play up you not only let yourself down but wider family/community.

Btw, my brother taught classes largely made up of Chinese students who needed remedial maths to cope at a UK university. This is very common. They weren't in any way stupid, but the philosophy behind the teaching is very different - you are expected never to question your teacher. So inevitably when students come to university here, they can struggle because they are not equipped with some of the skills we value in the UK - like asking sensible questions and acting on your own initiative.

These were students who'd aced their exams in China, btw.

I am not convinced our way of teaching is so bad.

ILoveTIFFANY This article explains why we should be worried about our standards of education in this country. In summary, the world market means we have become a service economy but as China and India grow, (China in particular) why should they continue to employ our graduates in their company offices here when the focus is shifting East and their own students are being educated to a similar, or higher, standard. Offices and employment will shift East and there is nothing we can do about it. Our egotistical UK-centric world view and general dismissal of the importance of learning languages isn't doing us any good.

God, the amount of times I've had to remind kids that I'm there to educate not entertain and that one is required, the other is a bonus.

As a maths teacher, there are only so many ways you can jazz up teaching fractions, and at the end of the day, the only effective way of learning how to deal with fractions is to do lots of questions involving fractions.

If someone observed one of my lessons and said it was dull and the kids disengaged because I was just droning on and on in a monotone, then fair enough. If they said it was dull because I got the kids to do a worksheet of questions instead of making a poster or writing a rap about fractions, then screw that.

Well if they leave a 2 year old to die at the side of the road it makes me wonder how they get children to comply in the classroom!!

How do they discipline?

op have you watched 'china school' it's enlightening.

but all schools aren't like the one you mentioned in the op, sounds like a crap school tbh

You're right EllaDee but I believe China and other parts of Asia are wising up to the criticisms that have been leveled at them. Creativity is increasingly being pushed. Chinese colleagues of mine have been called robots but they would argue you need to understand the box before you can think outside it.

I don't think our way of teaching is necessarily bad either but IMO if you take some of the cliched Asian traits, hard work, self-discipline etc and couple it together with creativity and imagination you've got a killer combination which will make you very employable.

It's oversubscribed and well thought of southeastastra.