To think that schools need to get much tougher on low level disruption & it's no wonder we're apparently falling behind other countries in terms of educational attainment.

[Cortina]

After reading the Ofsted report for a local primary I have been thinking that parents and teachers should get much tougher and expect higher standards of behaviour from children. It's no wonder we're apparently falling behind in terms of educational attainment when so many excuses are seemingly made for poor behaviour and low level disruption. At the risk of sounding ancient the sort of letter received by pupils below would be unthinkable 20 years ago.

Excerpts from Ofsted 'letter to pupils':

Sometimes we saw that the work teachers set was either too hard or too easy or a bit boring and then unsurprisingly some of you lost interest and started to misbehave. We think you behave well most of the time, especially in interesting and enjoyable lessons. Sometimes, when the lessons are a bit dull and not so exciting, some of you get restless and begin to disturb others.

The letter goes on to make excuses for low level disruption and some occasional bad behaviour and say that this isn't the children's fault at all. It ends with a request that they smile through and that the officers have noticed it's a good, safe school so they're lucky.

If I read this as an 11 year old child I would assume:

1. I could blame the rather dull lessons & poor lesson planning/teaching for my disruptive behaviour.

2. Wonder why on earth rather dull lessons were on the agenda at all? If the adults think lessons are sometimes boring and a bit pointless then I may as well switch off.

3. To think there were no sanctions or consequences for poor behaviour.

I think we need to wake up. Our children are going to have to compete in an increasingly globalised world. Can you imagine this being written and circulated to children in South Korea, Singapore or China? How the teachers would laugh at us circulating letters like this to pupils.

And I hate to bring up the private/state thing but how many prep schools do you think would have this philosophy? Surely we set our children up for failure with these sort of platitudes and half-baked excuses for poor behaviour.

My wider experience tells me that these sort of attitudes are not isolated to one (good by the way) Primary. I can see that they are trying to 'get the children on side' but I don't think it's working for reasons stated above.

You only have to read MN to see the problem, some people will not support the school and they will get terribly upset if their 5yr old is expected to sit still and listen! I don't think that they appreciate that 30 'free spirits' in the classroom means the teacher can't do anything!
Many parents see the classroom in terms of their DC and not in terms of all DCs.

Like the cane?

Quite, Whatmeworry. IMO we will come to - be forced, even, through necessity - to value what we've long taken for granted.

I can't see that the cane is the answer to anything, other than giving the dubious message 'anyone can get their own way if they are bigger and stronger'.

At parents evening, I was told, in front of my DS, that he causes low level disruption if the lesson is either too hard or too easy.

She implied she used his misbehaving as feedback as to the lesson being pitched wrong for him.

She didn't excuse his behaviour, she still expected him to behave - but she did learn from it.

She did imply that as it was early on in the year she was still learning how to pitch the lesson right for him.

He has a bloody star chart to keep him 'on task'. I have no idea if his behaviour has improved or not, seeing as we only have parents evening twice a year. But he's getting all of his stars.

Anyway, a good teacher does not allow low level disruption, and learns from it when it happens. I think this OFSTED report was deeply critical of the teaching and was trying to phrase it in a nice way.

Whilst I am not in favour of corporal punishment, I think, - as the letter I quoted from illustrates - we've perhaps gone much too far the other way.

Hi Indigo :). Perhaps re: the teaching, but why the blazes did they give it a '2' then? Surely makes a mockery of the whole inspection process/report?

Yes, I don't understand why they gave teaching a '2'. It does not sound like good teaching.

Read 'To Miss with love' - written by a former teacher.
If you need confirmation that Labour screwed up our education system it's in that book.

If you need confirmation that Katharine Birbalsingh is a cretinous individual, it's in that book.

a good teacher does not allow low level disruption, and learns from it when it happens

That is implying that it is the fault of the teacher and that all they need to do is adjust their teaching and low level disruption will magically go away.

Unfortunately kids in a classroom are not in individual bubbles. They bring the outside world in too, which can be nothing to do with the teacher.

And if you think low level disruption can be sorted by a teacher telling the kids to shut up and get on with it, you have never seen a wasp in a classroom.

Sometimes, (depending on school ethos, catchment, quality of senior management team) a teacher who spends time dealing with all the low level disruption, doesn't have any time left to actually deliver the lesson. That seems a bit rough on the well behaved kids who are desperate to learn and make something of their lives.

I agree with the OP totally and am sorry to say that the tone of the Ofsted letter reflects the current culture in education. Theres no doubt that the teacher bears great responsibility for the behaviour in her classes but IMO the pupils should not be made aware of this beyond what they pick up for themselves. In fact though there are teachers ( and here Ofsted are doing it) who undermine their colleagues to everyones detriment.

Low level disruption is a huge problem in schools and no one seems to want to acknowledge it.

I think it is more noticeable once they are senior level . Now there doing gcse ds2 says lot better as dome that were messing around picked different options . So now they can concerteate

I went to visit our local primary school (DD due to start somewhere in September). I was really surprised at the level of disruption in the class above Reception (is that Year 1?) and the way the teacher, classroom assistant and Deputy Head (who I was with) "handled it" by pretending it wasn't happening. I'm visiting other schools and hope that isn't the norm.

yep, someone who tells the truth is always a cretin.

The thing is that not everything in life can be a fun-fest. Some things that need to be taught in school are conceptually difficult and pretty dry, and actually, the kids just need to STFU and concentrate for 5 minutes. Stop blaming teachers for the fact that many kids have the attention span of a goldfish.

I live in HK and am slightly conflicted on how important Mandarin is likely to be, given that the entire Chinese population will probably be fluent in English. However, I agree that our children are going to be competing for jobs in an extremely global economy, so they probably need to take a leaf from those great philosophers Run DMC

"The next time someone's teaching, why don't you get taught"

Some low level disruption is due to teaching.

When my DS moved school, first day he said to me 'you won't believe it Mum, kids don't muck around in new school'. The difference in the two school was the teaching, not the 'cohert'. The new school had far more 'challenging' students than the old school.

Parents weren't all stricter or more involved in 'our' day.

Far more kids used to be failed. But you didn't see them because they were expelled quicker or sent to special schools.

And of course kids who were 'above average' were also worse off in 'our' day. Which focussed much more on teaching everyone the same thing at the same time.

I really like the UK education system. It's not perfect. It's failing my kids with SN really badly. But there is no other country whose system looks like it would be better for my children.

And while my kids are not doing well - I am amazed at what they do know and what they have learnt.

Indigo That depresses the shit out of me. You're saying the system is failing your kids with special needs and that your other kids aren't doing well, but that you think the system is good. What's good about it exactly?

BTW they graded the teaching overall as a 2, but from that letter I think they are making some very pointed remarks about "some" teachers. I once read a very early Ofsted of a local school, and it would have been obvious from that letter exactly which teacher needed re-training.
Lessons can't always be entertaining, but they can be stimulating. I believe all human beings like to be challenged a little. Some of the most fulfilling lessons I had at schools were spent solving Algebra problems; not easy, or exciting, but definitely stimulating and fulfilling. On the other hand asking me to solve Vector equations was always frustrating as I found it too hard, and doing 200 addition problems would be boring (too easy).

Teaching is a very very hard job to get right.

BTW my kids are at Outstanding schools so maybe my standards are just too high?

mummytime I agree about challenge, but the comprehensive system means that you've got a huge ability gap in most lessons, which makes effective teaching almost impossible. The bright ones will be slightly bored, whilst the less able ones will be sitting there thinking "what the fuck am I meant to be doing?"

Isn't it a bit misguided in that case to make coded/subtle remarks about 'some' teachers in a letter sent to pupils? It wasn't aimed a the teachers but addressed to individual children.

It doesn't strike me as being very transparent or good practice in that case.

The letter itself is crap tbh - I would be pretty cross if my ds was sent home with something like that.

Bride - they don't do whole class teaching anymore. Every child in the class is given different work (or there is at least 3 different levels of work) - that is how you engage every pupil. That is why teaching is so hard.

Why do I think the system is good when it's failed 2 of my children? My DD has severe dyselxia. It's not schools fault. Good teaching won't help her. She can't read or write at all. Is bottom of the class for every subject. Yet she is confident and happy. She loves school. And doesn't think she's stupid.

There probably is nothing else I can expect school to do for her. (While what I can do for her at home, to cure her dyslexia, is a very different question)

My DS1 has both SN and is very clever. He's bloody hard to teach as well. The fact that this teacher recognises that some of his behaviour problems stem from the fact that he is clever, rather than from his Autism, is a bloody miracle. It is the sign of an excellent teacher in an excellent school.

The fact that she sometimes manages to get work for him right, is a bloody miracle.

But again he's happy and he likes school. And he is going to leave Y6 with very good SAT results.

Bride of Frankenstein - I think by 2020-30 we'll see a burgeoning middle class in China. I think if you've taught your child/grandchild mandarin they'll have a huge advantage. Knowledge of west and east, in the minority as a westerner with good mandarin, they're going to be very employable.