to hate the term passive agressive

[RedHelenB]

You are one or the other, you can't be both at the same time!!!!

It is a bit about balance. If I confronted all the issues I had with people full on, I would have no friends. Sometimes it's appropriate to say to dh "you'll never guess what x did/said". Becomes a problem when stewing on something for weeks and doing something like pretending you're busy all the time, being subtly catty about the person etc. thats the time I need to reflect on whether to work out what's wrong and either let it go or confront it. Passive aggressive behaviour hurts me and others. I used to be like it with dh, classic strategy was laundry stand offs and coming home late from work, and luckily he loves me! And I've changed. My family never tackles stuff head on, there's a lot of "don't tell x but" and I've worked hard not to let my family with dh and children be like that.

Laprune, you should try being open and honest rather than the manipulative/ controlling approach. If you test it out firs on a relatively innocuous situation, that will be a good way for you to see how different things can be, and how different you can be.

I've done it - 'oh I admire how you can live like this and not get stressed' is a very thinly veiled critiscism. I hate it when I do it and am aware of it, don't do it very often tbh and probably only to one particular person. She's always late and often totally forgets appointments with people - she will just shrug and say 'oh that's just me isn't it'. I don't think it's an acceptable way of behaving but because I love her dearly I can't be 'properly' critical so will be PA to vent my frustration at her behaviour.

OP, yes you can be both at once, see above! I don't hate the term at all, I think it is spot on.

I find it a very useful term. YABU.

So another person I ignore is this one-

My neighbour who 5 yrs ago reported me to the RSPCA. I was dogsitting for my brother for 3 weeks, his dog came to us. She was a Boxer pup a few months old (at the lanky stage) and was loved, fed and well treated.
RSPCA lady arrived three days after dog had gone back to my brother. She told me my neighbour had reported me for mistreating and under feeding said dog. He of the coffee table Labrador which resembled a barrel.

I confronted the neighbour about this a few weeks later when I came across him as I was out walking my employers dogs. He didn't answer me (actually I think he's quite deaf but he must have got the gist of it) and just kind of scuttled off across the field with my (v large, curly coated retriever) dogs barking after him. (Reader, I swear I did not set the dogs upon him, no, no).

He has not looked me in the eye since then and I confess I did not him either. But I pass him on an almost daily basis and have started pulling funny faces at him as we pass, since he won't look at me and it's a kind of chicken run thing to see if he looks up and catches me.

This morning I had to pass him in very quiet and narrow lane (me with our newish dog - on a lead luckily since she always barks at him if she's off!) and I thought, it's amazing, our ignoring act.

What I wonder is this: Am I PA? Or is he? Or both of us? Should I try to say hello and let bygones be bygones? (I resist this with every fibre of my being as hell hath no fury like a dog lover scorned) Does my unwillingness to let the water go under the bridge make me PA? Should I get my own thread? (Sorry OP. didn't mean to hijack, you set me off!)

It depends though doesn't it. One person's "straightforward and grownup" is another person's aggression and vice versa. I have been in a situation many times with a friend where I'm sure she thinks she is being direct and calm but I find it terribly aggressive. Meanwhile I think I'm being normal in not wanting to talk about something and she probably see it as passive aggressive.

Some of this is in the eye of the beholder.

Also just thought - my dad often describes people as passive aggressive - in a very scathing way. He actually is fairly confrontational. So actually he is using it as a put-down to people who do not like confrontation. Which is probably where my (incorrect) understanding of the term came from.

I would say the POWs may have been subversive (eg. when building the Burmese railway weakening it so that the first train across crashed) not passive agressive.

It exists and you see it on MN all the time, typically as a last line followed by the emoticon.

TheSecondComing, I've confronted her often but in a 'nice' way I guess. I've offered to be her PA, offered to buy her a diary, organise her phone - she just laughs, brushes if and says 'you know what I'm like'. I find if we have an arrangement I triple check that she knows what we are doing but I see her doing it to other people all the time both in the work place and in her personal life. It's as though saying 'oh that's just me' excuses her behaviour totally!

Oooh yes Whatmeworry you have given me a new level of understanding of MN there...thank you haha! If only people had a few more they might come out as or

It's a very accurate term OP, have you never encountered this type of behaviour?

I work closely with a colleague who is a textbook PA. It's extremely difficult to challenge in the workplace - I've tried it and come off worse as her tactic is to appear to be the 'nice' one and anyone who disagrees with her is 'bad' and 'wrong'.

So now I take the path of least resistance, ignore and don't confront.

When she's running late (as always), instead of letting her control the situation, I tell her I'll make my own way to the meeting, lunch or whatever and see her there when she's ready.

When she sulks because she's been badly treated by our manager (her perception), I ignore - in the past I've fed into her behaviour and allowed her to manipulate me into complaining on her behalf!

When she starts gossiping and (endlessly) moaning, I make my excuses and walk away if I can.

It's wearing.

OP - come and meet my MIL one day and you will see someone being both at the same time.

It's not only possible, she has it down to a fine art.

I am a shocker for a

It's not very passive though surely, quite straightforward?

I think can be more PA than

Deffo to the as the PA smiley

means I'm angry
means you are talking shit (in my mind anyway! maybe this is not universal...)

Ah no, :) means you are capable of Irony - total step up in the game!

:)

I think you're being mildly passive aggressive towards the neighbour, TrulySCrumptious, but then again, you've tried to confront him, which isn't really the modus operandi of PA. PA is far more manipulative than that. I stick my tongue out at DD's back when she's being a right cow, but I reckon that's just letting off steam.

Here are a few PA examples:

"D"H hates makes a public ceremony out of closing drawers or cabinet doors I left open.

He makes very strange cutting comments about the blindness or ineptitude of household residents who didn't tidy up the way he wants; his comments are so oblique that the DC completely miss them, but I clock them: I am the target of his aggression for not running the household, and making DC conform to his way of doing things.

I'll ask DH to do something differently (as a regular habit) and first he'll ask in a very blunt tone WHY, then after I explain, he'll have the most completely blank shocked look on his face, loudly communicating in a non-verbal way "That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard, What the F* is wrong with you that you want or need it done like that?" Otherwise he says nothing.

Passive aggression people are frustrating to deal with because they won't admit they're being aggressive.

Give me direct aggression any day.

I'm OK with the term - because it's direct.

Ragged, I would beat him to death with a blunt instrument. He sounds unhinged.

(not much passivity in my aggression )

PA is an over used term on this forum. Its a bit like a new bike in shop. Everyone wants to have a go.