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Original poster

Eamonn Holmes is a bit of a know isnt he

183 replies

AVoidkaTheKillerZombies · 27/10/2011 16:40

here

Asking a rape victim why she didnt take a taxi.

Knob!

OP posts:
Glitterkitten · 27/10/2011 18:47

"victim blaming" is an emotive and misleading term. He wasn't "blaming her", but I suspect the feminist agenda prefer to see it that way so they can bash another well intention penis owner Hmm

Is it "victim blaming" if homeowners are told to lock doors and windows? If a motorist is told to wear a seatbelt? If a mother is told to keep hold of her child hand on a busy street? If a teen is told not to walk through a park at night or have their fancy phones on show for all to see?
After all, why not just tell burglars not to thieve, motorists not to crash, etc etc......

Since when does sensible advice designed to safeguard oneself equate to victim blaming?? This sort of hysterical crap puts me right off MN feminism. I don't see anyone getting all narky about other Crime prevention advice.

And for what it's worth, when my daughter is old enough to be out and about o an evening, I will tell her to get a cab, walk with friends etc. I am not a rapist apologist nor am I stupid. I would just want sensible, reasonable precautions to be taken

I am sure his motive was well intentioned. I am also sure he wasn't thinking to himself "her own fault"

Seriously, can a man not give well intentioned advice without some women picking it apart. I think some women like to take offence.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 27/10/2011 18:51

Well said Helvetica

We are frequent visitors to York and there are still lots of posters about the disappearance of Claudia Lawrence. She was working an early shift and disappeared somewhere on her way to work, no doubt a route she had walked many times in the early morning without incident.

I doubt it was practical for her to take taxis every day or find public transport at that time of day.

It would take a better man than Eamonn Holmes to suggest that she should have taken a taxi and get away with the comment.

Attacks of any kind are always, 100% of the time, the sole responsibility and fault of the attacker.

Pan · 27/10/2011 18:52

Well, until the "how to stop rapes? Stop doing it, men." message is understood and absorbed totally, then care has to be taken. Doesn't mean if you are attacked it is your own fault - it is always the culpability of the attacker.

and is anyone going to disagree that the chances of being attacked are massively reduced if you do get a cab? Obv her particular short walk isn't relevant ( most people would have walked). An understandable response to not getting a taxi and being attacked would have been "yes I know this Eammon you fuckwit".

SardineQueen · 27/10/2011 18:52

I am boggled that people get cabs when they go anywhere, however short a distance, after dark.

What happens if you have forgotten to put your bins out and it's got dark?

What happens if you don't drive to work?

What happens if your work car park is a way from your place of work?

Women need to be able to travel around after dark by themselves, without being told that if they are unchaperoned then they shouldn't be surprised if they get raped.

SardineQueen · 27/10/2011 18:53

Pan the fact is that this woman did only have a short walk and yet was still repeatedly told that she should have got a cab.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 27/10/2011 18:56

This was not well intentioned advice.

This was a man, telling a woman who had ALREADY been raped that she should have taken a taxi.

THAT is victim blaming.

And please refrain from being derogatory about feminists. It really doesn't help the discussion

LadyEvilEyes · 27/10/2011 18:56

Yes, Glitter that's the way I see it.
What he said was well intentioned, and yes NoOnes. I ignored my parent's advice when I was young too, but it doesn't mean they were wrong.
I hitchhiked to Greece at 18.
If my son even suggested doing something so ridiculous and dangerous I would hide his passport.Grin.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 27/10/2011 18:58

Sardine I remember reading a story about a woman who was raped in her own home when a rapist crept into her house while she was putting the bins out after dark.

Which in the winter is something everyone has to do, no matter if you put them out the night before or first thing in the morning.

Our council have a rule, you can only put out your bin up to seven hours before collection time, which is 7:30am. So 12:30am is the earliest time you can put them out without risking a fine. At 7:30am it is still dark.

Maybe in the winter I should call a taxi to sit outside my house until I've got the bin to the street?

Pan · 27/10/2011 18:58

yes SQ - am not defending him beyond being ill-thought out insensitive, poorly prepared - didn't grasp the enormity of what he was saying - it's as if he was interviewing her like he would a footie person/politician/other celeb. He'd got one simple notion (taxi=safe) and thrashed it to death. Hence the 'fuckwit' potential he could have received.

MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin · 27/10/2011 18:58

Don'tCallMeFrothyDragon said it perfectly:

So, if your DD came home and told you she'd been raped whilst she was on the way home, would your first response be "you should have taken a taxi"?

That is the definition of victim blaming, and that's what he did.

SardineQueen · 27/10/2011 18:59

It's not advice though is it.

The woman said she was raped and the man asked her why she hadn't got a cab. She explained that she only walked 2 streets and he repeated that she should have got a cab.

It's not advice, it's telling her she fucked up.

goinggetstough · 27/10/2011 18:59

Agree with Glitterkitten and I saw the interview. Sadly muggings/rape etc happen and single people walking home on their own are more of a target. No they are not asking for it. There are though ways of decreasing the risks: taking taxi or cycling home are two ways to do this. My DD (and soon my DS) is at university and we would tell them both to take a taxi rather than to walk home. In fact at Bristol university I believe they have a deal with a taxi firm so that if the student has no money they give in their student ID card to the taxi driver, take the taxi and next day go to the Union to get their card and to pay. This is not an unnecessary action but one they feel necessary to keep their students safe.

Glitterkitten · 27/10/2011 19:00

It not blaming the victim. It's a question in context with the story.

I will refrain from being derogatory about feminists when they start to see men as equal rather than dozy dipshits who think women are stupid whores

Deal?

Do any of you guys have sons?? God forbid!

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 27/10/2011 19:02

LadyEvilEyes - I'm not saying they were wrong.

I'm asking if they would have kept on giving that 'advice" after an attack on you or someone they loved?

Or if you would keep on giving it to your son if he was attacked? In the same way Eamonn did to this girl "Well you didn't take a taxi, why didn't you take a taxi, well it wasn't safe was it, I always say take a taxi..."

There is a point where advice becomes blame, and Eamonn reached that point before this woman even had a chance to speak on his programme.

chibi · 27/10/2011 19:02

it is easier and maybe comforting to think that all rapes are carried out by two guys, easily identifiable, and just as easily avoided if you do x, y, z

they aren't.

stupid analogies miss the point.

I can't disguise the fact that i am female (locking up my valubles in the burglary analogy)

I can't avoid a certain place where rape is most likely to occur, as there isn't one (care near a busy road analogy)

there is no precaution like buckling a seatbelt - unless perhaps this equates to loading a gun?- which will shift the odds in my favour in case i am attacked

rape happens when men, some of whom are great with animals, others who give to charity, others who are super dads, and yes, some with fangs and tattoos...

When men decide to penetrate someone with their penis without consent

I wish magical thinking could stop it, i do

And i really hope you magical thinkers never have to find out otherwise

But every time you trot out the old 'but why didn't you x' no matter how well intentioned or caring you think you are being, you are reinforcing the kinds of shitty rape myths that help to maintain rape culture.

SardineQueen · 27/10/2011 19:02

no-ones you have to put your bins out after midnight?

That's really weird. What kind of council thought that one out Confused

And yes of course you should be chaperoned when putting your bins out. If you haven't got a man at home to chaperone you, you should pay for one in the form of a cab driver.

MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin · 27/10/2011 19:03

to (not) have their fancy phones on show for all to see?

How do you hide the fact that you're a woman?

homeowners are told to lock doors and windows

The whole point of rape is that it happens without the victims consent. How can you make yourself secure other than avoiding being near a rapist?

And for what it's worth, when my daughter is old enough to be out and about o an evening, I will tell her to get a cab, walk with friends etc

Your daughter is much more likely to be raped by one of those friends who is seeing her home.

MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin · 27/10/2011 19:03

x posts Chibi

HelveticaTheBold · 27/10/2011 19:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SardineQueen · 27/10/2011 19:06

Also

SheCutOffTheirTails · 27/10/2011 19:06

Whether you believe he is a misogynist or not, I would have thought the twat bit was unarguable.

If someone was on who had been knocked down and horribly injured in a RTA was on TV and an interviewer kept going on about how they should have observed the Green Cross Code and they'd have been fine, the normal response would be that the interviewer was a twat.

Doing that kind of trite "I told you so" (or I would have told you so if I'd had the chance) to someone talking about a major trauma is horrendously self-absorbed and dickish.

It's only because some people buy into the "kindly advice from Dad" bullshit that he has any supporters at all.

MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin · 27/10/2011 19:07

They don't burn up in daylight?

Pan · 27/10/2011 19:07

Studies of what, Helvetica? Whether it's safer to get a cab than walk home on your own in the dark you mean? I think prob. the study of life indicates the likely outcome of that doesn't it?

Original poster
AVoidkaTheKillerZombies · 27/10/2011 19:09

Did I make that spelling mistake in the title?
Confused

OP posts:
squeakyfreakytoy · 27/10/2011 19:10

homeowners are told to lock doors and windows

"The whole point of rape is that it happens without the victims consent. How can you make yourself secure other than avoiding being near a rapist?"

Dont leave windows open at night would be a start. Many victims have been attacked in their own homes because they left a window open while they slept. This is not always by strangers either, this can be by ex partners with a grudge.... so yes, the sensible advice is to lock your doors and windows.