Why are so many non-Christians bothered about the (relatively few) borrowings from the Christian myth in the Narnia books?

[BelfastBloke]

Apart from Aslan's resurrection in one book, which is quite heavy-handed, Christian elements don't seem to be that prevalent across the seven books.

Yet many people seem to be deeply suspicious that the Chronicles of Narnia are a form of propaganda which will indoctrinate their kids.



I know that CS Lewis was a part-time Christian evangelist (and full-time Professor of Medieval Lit), but the books themselves don't seem suffused with the doctrines in the way one might expect; and certainly not in the way they're sometimes described.

My parents read the whole series to us as children. I found them frightening and never enjoyed them. I didn't pick up the religious allegory until I was older though (perhaps when watching the televised versions). I would certainly encourage my DCs to read The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe as it is a children's classic and I'd feel they'd missed out if they didn't. They're too young at the moment though.

I've read all of them loads of times and never noticed the Christian element of them. [dim emoticon]

The Christian element doesn't bother me. There are plenty of other myths in there as well to make the books richer - the Silver Chair has Plato's allegory of the cave and elements of traditional English myth.

I agree with others who have said it is common for entertainment to be based on mythic structure and belief systems. The Gnosticism in the Matrix films is far more heavy handed than the Christianity in the Narnia books.

Kayzr How?

I adore the whole series and still re-read them sometimes if I'm in the mood. If C.S. Lewis was trying to indoctrinate he failed dismally because I ended up Pagan

I noticed the christian allegories when I was 8. Its not exaclty hidden.

But the main problem is that they are shit.

Agree with Ella that an understanding of Christianity is essential to understand much of western culture. I am an atheist but my children have a toddler bible even though they're only 3 and 1. My parents were not religious so never taught me anything about religion. My head teacher at primary school (not a church school) was something important at Ripon Cathedral and she used to provide a good grounding in Christianity during school assemblies and RE. I think that stood me in good stead later on even though I wasn't persuaded that she was right.

I always wondered why The Magician's Nephew was missed out in the films, that was the best book imo!

Elladee, I think we learn about these meanings through stories, songs etc. I don't think many people sit down and say that the symbolism of an apple is X.

But I agree that all children should be taught about symbolism and myth, including cultural Christianity.

YABU.... 'Many' people? Name 10

I don't think the Christian themes are vague at all. The whole series is a very specific Christian allegory and was deliberately written as such.

I did notice it when I read it as a child but then I was being brought up in a very Christian household so it was probably more obvious to me than a child less familiar with Christianity.

However, I don't think they HAVE to be read in that way. It's possible to enjoy the Bible as just a good story so why not read the Narnia books in the same way if you don't believe in the theme?

I also have no problem with the racist and sexist overtones - the book is a product of its time. If you started banning children from reading all fiction that is more than 50 years old we'd have a very sad cultural heritage to pass on.

*I don't see how a child brought up in a strict atheistic household would know that an apple is meant to represent the apple of Eden? Surely if the child already knows that, the problem is not these books but the fact that you've been teaching/someone's been teaching the child about Christianity already?

(Personally, I think it's a deprivation not to learn about Christianity because it underpins much of Western culture and literature, but I don't see the logic here if you do think it's a problem).*

This is the real problem...if a person is so hell-bent (oops, excuse the choice of words there!) on not teaching their kids about religion from a cultural, literary, and historical perspective, then why even bother to give them these (or many other) books to read at all? A kid from an atheistic home ideally would still be educated to recognize Christian symbolism in art and literature.

Literature is supposed to enrich our lives - and books are so much more enriching if one understands them more completely. You can't get everything you could from the Narnia books without acknowledging their relationship to the Christian bible.

If a non-Christian kid is reading the Narnia books, he or she may need to have some of the symbolism explained. But surely that is something a parent or teacher can manage to do without 'indoctrinating' a child? In fact, making the religous element "visible" is the best way to parse the beliefs and take away their ability to mislead or indoctrinate.

Should be equally true of other religious texts as well, of course - which it isn't - and that is wrong and disappointing too.

They've announced Magician's Nephew will be the next film, if they can raise the money.

This means Eustace's story will not be continued through the Silver Chair, and the excellent performance by that actor (Will somebody? Poulter?) will not be continued.

I doubt there will be a fifth film, even if they manage to make the fourth (Magician's Nephew). Diminishing returns for each film, I think - did Dawn Treader make more than Caspian?

I agree there are a lot more Christian references than just Aslan's resurrection - some a little more subtle, some not remotely subtle - they were very obvious to me even as a child.

Can't say it bothers me though, and I don't see it as indoctrination or propaganda, just referencing a particular culture/belief, which obviously was very much part of the author's own life. I loved the books as a child (though no doubt I'd find things to annoy me if I re-read them now - but that goes for a lot of the things I read when I was young!)

Most children's stories have their roots in mythology. Christianity is just another set of myths, most of which have been adapted from other myth sytems anyway. Really, to understand culture and literature properly, you need a working knowledge of Greek, Norse, Roman and Celtic mythology as well. Nothing wrong with any of that.

Bah I couldn't care less.

I heard a author talking about all stories are essentially one story anyway.

Most children's stories have their roots in mythology. Christianity is just another set of myths, most of which have been adapted from other myth sytems anyway. Really, to understand culture and literature properly, you need a working knowledge of Greek, Norse, Roman and Celtic mythology as well. Nothing wrong with any of that.

yes, that's what i meant. (amen to that!)

I'm not sure why non-Christians would be bothered about Christian allegory in these or any other books. A child is unlikely to "catch" Christianity from reading a series of story books.

Plus why is any parent trying to mould their childrens' beliefs, rather than letting them making up their own minds?

All of mine went to a church infant school, carol services and Scouts/Guides and utterly failed to become Christian. With no input from me, they have individually decided they are atheists, as am I (although they didn't know that).

If you don't have a knowledge of Christianity then you wouldn't know about the parallels between the books and Christianity.

I loved the lion the witch and the wardrobe and the Magicians nephew when I was a child but I hated the others, especially the terrifyingly jihadist Last Battle.

I think the sexism and racism is much worse than other books of the time.

So a child brought up in 'a strict atheistic household' would never get taken to the Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery, to learn about the amazing Romanesque and Gothic icons and frescos? Never see imagery from the Sistine Chapel, Assisi or St Pauls? Never learn about the Divine Comedy, one of the greatest poems ever written? That seems to me less like protecting young people from indoctrination than like depriving them of the knowledge they need to make sense of the way the world is today.

Whether you believe them or not, I learning about Bible stories, the history of the Christian church and the basics of our Christian heritage is as essential to having a decent grasp of our history and culture as a working knowledge of ancient Greek and Roman mythologies. How can we understand the established Church, the basis of our moral attitudes and even the founding of America without understanding the impact of the Reformation? How can we understand how our language has developed without knowing a bit about Gutenberg or the King James Bible? And how can literature older than 100 years be intelligible without a working knowledge of the Bible?

In throwing the baby of history and culture out with the bathwater of faith we risk condemning ourselves to an eternal present, with no reference points from which to grasp the thought that in the past, they might have done things differently. That way lies barbarism. Fuck having a 'strict atheist household'.

Honestly this sounds like a bit of a straw man argument. Who exactly is getting so outraged by these books, and calling them 'propaganda'? No one on this thread so far.

I agree with Ephiny. I have never heard of these 'strict atheistic households' where people have no knowledge of Christianity. I think such households are a fiction.

Valium I don't know. It seems really obvious now thinking about it.

Just alternate reading the Narnia books with the Phillip Pullman Dark Materials series.

Problem solved

its another work of fiction just like IMO the bible is,

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